Linguistics Help Needed!

Yelnoc

In our timeline, Christopher Columbus's discovery of the Americas separates two eras of history; pre-Columbian and post-Columbian. For the timeline I am writing, Columbus will not be the man to discover the Americas, in fact, no European will discover the Americas. In my timeline, it is Zheng He and the Ming Fleet that reach the New World first.

Back to linguistics. When people of this timeline refer to the period before outside influence in American history, what will they refer to it as? Something along the lines of pre-Zheng He (or pre-Zheng or pre-He?) but with the correct ending. I need this for both China and Europe.
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
Well Zheng He is pinyin. At the time Europeans would know him either as Cheng Ho or by his Islamic name. They would probably Latinise either of those as they did with Confucius (Kong Fuzi / K'ung-fu-tzu).
 

RunAwayFromDangerMan

In China, they'll call it either pre-Zheng or pre-Ma (seeing as his original surname was Ma). In the Middle East, you'd probably see something along the lines of pre-Shams, as his Persian name was Mahmud Shams. In Europe, probably pre-Cheng or pre-Ho.
 
The Professor

The Professor

Thande said:
Well Zheng He is pinyin. At the time Europeans would know him either as Cheng Ho or by his Islamic name. They would probably Latinise either of those as they did with Confucius (Kong Fuzi / K'ung-fu-tzu).
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Hmmm perhaps Chengovus or Chengovius?
So Pre- and Post-Chengovian
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Yelnoc said:
In our timeline, Christopher Columbus's discovery of the Americas separates two eras of history; pre-Columbian and post-Columbian. For the timeline I am writing, Columbus will not be the man to discover the Americas, in fact, no European will discover the Americas. In my timeline, it is Zheng He and the Ming Fleet that reach the New World first.

Back to linguistics. When people of this timeline refer to the period before outside influence in American history, what will they refer to it as? Something along the lines of pre-Zheng He (or pre-Zheng or pre-He?) but with the correct ending. I need this for both China and Europe.
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I think a better alternate name for China will be Chonguia from Zhonghua in that timeline
 

Yelnoc

kasumigenx said:
The Zh of Zhonghua is rendered as Ch but I think both Chonia, Chonuaia or Chonguia are possible.
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What I don't understand is why China would be called anything other China by outsiders. I know Zhonghua or Middle Kingdom is what the Chinese traditional called their state but I don't see why that would be adopted by outsiders.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Yelnoc said:
What I don't understand is why China would be called anything other China by outsiders. I know Zhonghua or Middle Kingdom is what the Chinese traditional called their state but I don't see why that would be adopted by outsiders.
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I think it is possible if the term got popularized by some explorer but I think it is not very feasible.
 
The Professor

The Professor

Yelnoc said:
I really like this. Thande does bring up a good point though. Would "Pre-Chengovian" be correct?
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If not Chengovian then possibly Ciengovian if we use Italian orthography as an example.
A lot will depend on how "Ch/Zh" is transliterated as news of the discovery filters back to Europe.
Perhaps the polish digraph Cz is used ;)
 

mosodake

Yelnoc said:
What I don't understand is why China would be called anything other China by outsiders. I know Zhonghua or Middle Kingdom is what the Chinese traditional called their state but I don't see why that would be adopted by outsiders.
Click to expand...

You also have to take into account that Zhonghua (or any other Chinese word) was not pronounced this way until fairly recently. Chinese, like all other languages, changed drastically over the centuries. While the characters stayed the same, we are essentially applying Mandarin pronunciations to a concept that existed long before Mandarin developed as a language.
 

Falecius

The Professor said:
If not Chengovian then possibly Ciengovian if we use Italian orthography as an example.
A lot will depend on how "Ch/Zh" is transliterated as news of the discovery filters back to Europe.
Perhaps the polish digraph Cz is used ;)
Click to expand...

The Italian form would be probably Cengovian, without I.
I've no clue about the Chinese forms and their pronounciation, but my guess is that in Late Medieval Latin a simple C or possibly S would be the most likely ways to render the Zh digram of pinyin. Z is also possible but less liklely. Almost surely not CH, that, AFAIK, had not any widespread use, even in late Latin to render dental or palato-dental sounds.
 

Skokie

Banned
You'd need to consider where and when the term "Pre-Columbian" arose. Then consider the likelihood that such a linguistic formation would exist in a timeline without European colonization of the Americas.

I can't imagine Europeans paying much attention to the differences between pre or post Chinese influence/expansion in the Americas. It's not like they drew a distinction between pre- and post-Islamic Indonesia. They would have viewed them as yet another band of small peoples in the Indies--who were probably that way since time immemorial.

I have no idea how the Chinese would conceptualize such a change. Would this involve Chinese colonization? A demarcation of time might be relevant then. But if it's just Chinese people extracting tribute from the Americas (more likely) I can't see them creating such an axis mundi "pre" and "post" demarcation from the discovery of the Americas.
 
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