Karadjordjevic or Obrenovic?

Onyx

Banned
I have a question to Serbian knowers on this site, it deals with an AH Im trying to configure

Who is considered to be the better of the King of Serbia, Karadjordje or Obrenovic?
I've tried to find out what's the difference between the two, but I can't figure out what the two differ at and who is considered to be better as the King

Any advice?
 

Shaby

I doubt anyone could point to any difference more significant than the name itself. Fact is Karadjordjevich lead the first uprising against Turks and Obrenovich the second. Obrenovich dynasty had better relationship with Austria, IIRC, while Karadjordjevich's had better relationship with Russia. That is all I can tell you.
 

rldragon

Well, as a Serbian, I guess I am the one most suited to this question.

First of all, neither Karadjordje nor Milos Obrenovic were kings. The first one was a Vozhd (grand duke?), and the second one a Knjaz (Prince). That said, their powers were indeed that of an (absolute) monarch.

If we only make a comparison between Karadjordje and Milos Obrenovic (and not their whole dynasties), I will argue that Milos was a better ruler.

He was just as good of a military commander as Karadjordje, and infinitely better as a peace-time leader.

A self-made man, he used wisely the great wealth he had accrued (bribing Ottoman officials, including even some viziers, buying property in neighbouring countries), and was not so blindly reliant on Russia as his old friend (Karadjordje) was, but rather gathered allies where he could find them.

However, both men were strongly autocratic, not keen on sharing powers and not the noblest of individuals.
 

rldragon

Shaby, not your fault, the Yugoslavian education was not very keen on teaching national histories (be they Serbian, Croat, Bosnian...).

And if you are younger, I really doubt that your teachers taught you much about Serbian history. :eek:
 

Shaby

rldragon said:
Shaby, not your fault, the Yugoslavian education was not very keen on teaching national histories (be they Serbian, Croat, Bosnian...).

And if you are younger, I really doubt that your teachers taught you much about Serbian history. :eek:
Click to expand...

Ma stara sam garda, prije 90tih. Zapravo osnovnu Sam zavrsio '92.

Anyway, pretty much what you said.
 

rldragon

Onda nema potrebe ista da ti govorim. :D

@Original Poster: In any case, I could probably tell you a lot more about both Karadjordje and Milos (or their dynasties), but unless I know what information do you need specifically, my previous answer should suffice.
 

Onyx

Banned
rldragon said:
Onda nema potrebe ista da ti govorim. :D

@Original Poster: In any case, I could probably tell you a lot more about both Karadjordje and Milos (or their dynasties), but unless I know what information do you need specifically, my previous answer should suffice.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the answer, thats very helpful in what Im doing.

My AH is that Karadjordjevic succeeds and becomes Monarch of Serbia, I just wanted some insight in who was a more suitable and better ruler. The books never say what the characteristics were for the two and what made them different, all I knew was that Karadjordjevic was Russian-friendly, and Obrenovic was Austrian-friendly.
 

abc123

Banned
It would be maybe better if we compare dynasties of Obrenović and Karađorđević...

IMO Obrenović are better because they had good relations with A-H, but on the other hand, karađorđević, or better to say, Petar I was better as parliamentary ruler...
 

rldragon

Karadjordje is not an incompetent ruler, but in truth, his character is pretty similar to Milos (which is why Milos killed Karadjordje), and wildly different in the nature of his abilities.

If Karadjordje becomes a monarch, Serbia is even more of a Russian fan than OTL. On the other side, serbian military (and law) tradition get stronger, while trade (and bureaucracy) gets weaker.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Serbia is landlocked at that time, so trade may be a burden since most of the goods headed to Serbia would go through neighboring states.
 

Onyx

Banned
rldragon said:
Karadjordje is not an incompetent ruler, but in truth, his character is pretty similar to Milos (which is why Milos killed Karadjordje), and wildly different in the nature of his abilities.

If Karadjordje becomes a monarch, Serbia is even more of a Russian fan than OTL. On the other side, serbian military (and law) tradition get stronger, while trade (and bureaucracy) gets weaker.
Click to expand...


Thats basically the AH, Karadjordjevic manages to repel the Turks (Napoleon invades Russia later? More help by the Russians?), and so on and so forth, Greater Serbia emerges
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top