Interwar Soviet invasion of the United States

Draconis

Archienelson said:
Something about Interwar Soviet Union invading and conquering the birthplace of capitalism: The USA. You want to spread your glorious revolution? Cut off the head of the snake, This is all happening sometime between the 1920's and 30's rather than during the cold war era.

So how do you think this sort of invasion would play out? Would the USSR triumph or lose this kind of campaign.
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Then who will they buy their rope from?

Didn't Capitalism originally develop in Western Europe and the U.K. post renaissance? With the rise of the mercantile class and the expanding banking system?

I suppose the U.S. Navy is on an extended vacation during all this.
 
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Draconis

Carl Schwamberger said:
Alaska. The USSR could barely attack & the US could barely defend. On the ground its a battle of pygmys. Local National Guard and militia sprinkled with a few Regular Army defending, some Naval infantry compare trying to seize a few miserable kilometers of coast. The Pacific Fleet could only support a small squadron in the vast region, & the USSR a few ships with Arctic experienced crews.
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And then what happens later?
 

Lalli

YYJ said:
The Red Army could walk across the ice to Alaska in winter.
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Someone Inuit who is hunting whales/seals would see them and then go with his reindeer to nearest official post report Russians coming. Or then polar bears would eat them.
 

Major Major

Monk78 said:
Major Major said:
Great, now we can start an Операция Морской лев [Operatsiya Morskoy lev] permanent thread. How about beginning with The Red Napoleon (1929) by Floyd Gibbons?
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Wasn’t the attack in that book from Atlantic ?
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Yeah, and the Red Napoleon started off by taking power in the USSR after Stalin was assassinated, then revitalized the Red Army, conquered Europe with arms and seditions, and led the Red Army and combined fleets of the European powers to fight the U.S. in the Caribbean, but the citizenry flew to arms and defeated the Red Horde, while the glorious Navy demolished its foes.

Oh, and did I mention that the Red Napoleon ordered his men, who were mostly Central Asiatic types, to breed with lily-white virginal American girls? Boltok Sagdiyev (grandfather and father of Borat) would be in his field. Good-Bye! Chenquie!
 
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CHKeeley

CHKeeley

RanulfC said:
"capitalism" was always a part of civilization until the rise of the USSR
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Well that's an incredibly disputable statement. Capitalism and trade are not the same thing.

Aside from that, yeah this is beyond ASB. I would give you four successful Sealions for a scenario like this.
 

Monk78

Kicked
Major Major said:
Yeah, and the Red Napoleon started off by taking power in the USSR after Stalin was assassinated, then revitalized the Red Army, conquered Europe with arms and seditions, and led the Red Army and combined fleets of the European powers to fight the U.S. in the Caribbean, but the citizenry flew to arms and defeated the Red Horde, while the glorious Navy demolished its foes.

Oh, and did I mention that the Red Napoleon ordered his men, who were mostly Central Asiatic types, to breed with lily-white virginal American girls? Boltok Sagdiyev (grandfather and father of Borat) would be in his field. Good-Bye! Chenquie!
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Lots of air and naval battles too ?
 

Monk78

Kicked
Lalli said:
Someone Inuit who is hunting whales/seals would see them and then go with his reindeer to nearest official post report Russians coming. Or then polar bears would eat them.
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Ww3 rock Hudson mini series on TV in mid 80s
I loved it
Does anyone have a copy ?
 

Carl Schwamberger

Draconis said:
And then what happens later?
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Anti Communists in the US expend a incredible amount of energy trying suppress any and everything they associate with 'The Reds'. Scammers claiming to be White Russian emigres bilk US citizens out of money they think is going to support exiles fighting the Reds or to their children's eduction, Henry Ford blames it all on the Jews, the American Legion calls on its members for 100,000 Great War veterans to volunteer to kill the commies. the Army cringes as they can't logistically support 10,000 in Alaska for the next 12 months, the KKK gains some traction by pushing the patriotic anti Communist 100% American line, Unions and charity organizations lose traction for having socialist ideas.

Meanwhile a few thousand men on each side try not to die in the wilderness and occasionally have time to harass each other.
 

Carl Schwamberger

jsb said:
Would USN not be perfectly capable of deploying a force that could dominate the region?

USSR had no capital ship in the Pacific fleet and few if any obsolete cruisers, USN could just send a cruiser squadron or two to Anchorage with the few tenders and oilers it had to support them and it would be over?
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The USN lacked the logistic train to operate more than a few cruisers in those waters. That and some Revenue Cutters would be the US naval presence for a considerable time. Note that War Plan ORANGE allowed for a nominal two year construction of a fleet train before a offensive could start across the Pacific to where the Japanese Navy waited. There was no fleet base near subarctic Alaska. Just maintaining the Asiatic Squadron in the PI and China was a major undertaking in the under budgeted USN of the 1920s. I found cites from USN staff studies and fleet exercises of the era that showed how a fleet charging across the Central Pacific would lose 70% of its effectiveness by the time it reached Japanese or Philippines waters. Thats just making the crossing. The balance is lost after a few weeks of operating at that distance from any base, and with next to no support ships.

To understand what a few cruisers could do examine what the relative well prepared arctic navy accomplished vs the Japanese in the Alteutians campaign. The Japanese did no better. Both spending 99% of their time trying to keep their ships afloat in Arctic seas. In the 1920s there is not useful air reconnaissance and no radar to assist with search and navigation. I don't know where the equivalent of Hondo Point is on the Alaskan coast but despite lack of accurate charts and navigation aids I'm sure some flotilla leader will find it.

Maybe we can bribe Japan into blockading the Soviet eastern maritimes. They have naval bases at hand and some useful charts.
 

jsb

Carl Schwamberger said:
The USN lacked the logistic train to operate more than a few cruisers in those waters. That and some Revenue Cutters would be the US naval presence for a considerable time. Note that War Plan ORANGE allowed for a nominal two year construction of a fleet train before a offensive could start across the Pacific to where the Japanese Navy waited. There was no fleet base near subarctic Alaska. Just maintaining the Asiatic Squadron in the PI and China was a major undertaking in the under budgeted USN of the 1920s. I found cites from USN staff studies and fleet exercises of the era that showed how a fleet charging across the Central Pacific would lose 70% of its effectiveness by the time it reached Japanese or Philippines waters. Thats just making the crossing. The balance is lost after a few weeks of operating at that distance from any base, and with next to no support ships.

To understand what a few cruisers could do examine what the relative well prepared arctic navy accomplished vs the Japanese in the Alteutians campaign. The Japanese did no better. Both spending 99% of their time trying to keep their ships afloat in Arctic seas. In the 1920s there is not useful air reconnaissance and no radar to assist with search and navigation. I don't know where the equivalent of Hondo Point is on the Alaskan coast but despite lack of accurate charts and navigation aids I'm sure some flotilla leader will find it.

Maybe we can bribe Japan into blockading the Soviet eastern maritimes. They have naval bases at hand and some useful charts.
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But what are they going to face, all force is relative?

The Soviet probably are using maybe an old CLs some cutters and armed merchants? A scout force of line of Revenue Cutters and armed merchant and boarding & US Army/USMC landing ships supported by a squadron of USN cruisers would almost certainly dominate any battle and be able to blockade the area?

What can the Soviet navy really deploy off Alaska in 20s/30s I would suggest virtually nothing that would pass as a modern warship....? We are probably talking a WW1 CL in bad condition, at best a single Pensacola will easily kill it and even an Omaha should do?
 
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