If you wait you may become King of Sweden

Actually I'm very much aware of the importance of Norway to Denmark at the time and have been so all the way.

...

A common misconception is that Denmark was afraid to fight in those days.

Both these issues are sadly little recogniced today, :(

but then so is most issues in history prior to WW2 :(:(
 
IIRC, Frederick had kids. They just didn't survive to adulthood OTL. Just have some of them survive.

Frederick 6 had to daugthers Caroline married to prince Ferdinand (look up The Tallyrand Plan, by SteveW) and Vilhelmine married to Frederick 7 with his queen Marie Sofie Frederikke of Hesse-Kassel. A son and a daughter died in infancy.
With his mistress he had two sons and two daughters.

OTL he was succeeded by prince Christian Frederick son of Frederick who was the son of Frederick 5’s second marriage!
Christian Frederick is going to succeed Frederick 6 but things are going to change after that. Christian Frederick isn't going to play out just like OTL.
 
A revised TL takes off:

1807 July: Tsar Alexander and Napoleon meet in Tilsit for peace negotiations.
The Danish army is stationed in Holstein as an address to Britain of the Danish intentions to fight Napoleon, but Denmark-Norway wants freedom of the seas and Foreign Secretary Canning is of the opinion that Denmark is too week to resist Napoleon in the present situation.
August 16.: a British fleet lands 30000 troops in Sjaelland and on August 29., Wellington fights the Sjaelland Landevaern (Home Guard) at Koege. September 2.: the bombardment of Copenhagen is initiated and on September 7.: Copenhagen capitulates. The Danish Navy is the prize of the British.
Because of the loss of the Navy Denmark and Norway are de facto separated and a government commission is established in Norway headed by Duke Christian August.

1808 Robbed of the navy King Frederick 6 see no alternative to join Napoleon. When Tsar Alexander declares war upon Sweden Denmark follow suit. Sweden attacks Norway. 26000 French and Spanish troops under Marshall Bernadotte enter Jutland in anticipation of being landed in Scania.

1809 The Swedish army attacking Norway is repulsed and then marches on Stockholm toppling King Gustav 4. King Frederick 6 of Denmark-Norway is offered the Swedish crown but rejects the offer. Gustav’s uncle, Karl is then offered the crown and takes it as Karl 13. Duke Christian August, regent of Norway is offered the position as successor, as Karl 13 has no offspring and Frederick 6 allows this.
The events in Spain makes the British transport the 9000 Spanish troops in Denmark away.

1810 Frederick ask Christian August to ensure the safe passage of grain ships from Denmark to Norway to combat famine. Because of his love of Norway, Christian August allows this which account for much Norwegian trust in the Royal House.
Being worried about handling his difficult position Christian August has a stroke while reviewing troops and dies. King Frederick 6 is offered the position as successor to the Swedish throne and accepts. Even if some in Sweden would have preferred Christian August’s brother, Duke Frederick Christian. Frederick 6 is able to manoeuvre himself into position and being an ally of Napoleon he is seen by some as the man to re-install grandeur of former days in the unification of the three Scandinavian Kingdoms. Effectively he is seen as a man who won’t tremble at resorting to force if need be. King Frederick goes to Stockholm for formal acknowledgement by the Swedish Riksdag.
On returning to Copenhagen Frederick posts a prescript to the effect of Danish being church, school and legal language in parts of Slesvig-Holstein where the common peoples speak Danish.

1811 The gathering of La Grande Armee commences.
The NorwegianUniversity is established in Kristiania.
Christian Frederick, son of Frederick who was the son of Frederick 5’s second marriage! is sent to Norway as regent.

1812 May: the war between Russia and the Osmannic Empire is ended by a peace treaty in Bukarest. Russia gains Bessarabia and parts of Moldova.
June, War of 1812 between
Britain and the USA.
Napoleon and La Grande Armee enters
Russia.
September: after the battle of
Borodino the Russian army retreats and Napoleon enters Moscow on the 14. that burns on the next day.
October:
Battle of QueenstownHeights. Napoleon leaves Moscow on the 19.
But with Napoleon on the run
Frederick breaks away from alliance and enters into coalition with Russia, Prussia and Britain. The Scandinavian Kingdoms are to field an army of 50000 in Northern Germany. Britain is going to subsidy the Swedish contingent of 30000. Frederick insists on Prince Friedrich of Hesse as commander and Field Marshall von Fersen is commander of the Swedish contingent.
A Danish force is hurriedly in the middle of winter sent to Jutland to bolster defences. A determined French force moves into Holstein and proceeds into Slesvig and Jutland. The Danish forces take up flanking positions in Als and Funen after some skirmishing.
 
1813 The Danish and Norwegian contingents muster at Copenhagen. The Swedish contingent marches to Malmö and the troops are transported to Pommerania. The Swedes laugh at the rag-tag appearance of the Danish army but the news from Jutland makes them think different. The arrival of the Scandinavian contingent in Pommerania, and Danish raids upon the French forces in Jutland during spring makes Davout decide to leave Jutland for better use of the troops elsewhere.
The Danish army having taken Jutland, Slesvig and Holstein in possession again, the Scandinavian contingent moves out of Pommerania to join the coalition forces.
During the Battle of Leipzig the Scandinavian contingent earn a fighting reputation among the coalition forces but at severe losses. Friedrich of Hesse gives the troops a much needed rest. Denmark-Norway is near bankruptcy and only the insistence of Frederick 6 makes Karl 13 ask Britain for further subsidies to keep the army in the field.
 
Im a bit confused :confused::eek:

How big do you envision each contingent, and exactly were do they fight? Jutland, Pommerania, Leipzig? (not that it matters but Im a succer for details :eek::D)

Anyhow, the Norwegian contingent should be pretty tiny. The Norwegian army back then were small, and should probably be considered a militia. Nice in defence but more questionable in offense...

The Norwegian military strenght laid in supplying able seamen for the Navy.
 
Im a bit confused :confused::eek:

How big do you envision each contingent, and exactly were do they fight? Jutland, Pommerania, Leipzig? (not that it matters but Im a succer for details :eek::D)

Anyhow, the Norwegian contingent should be pretty tiny. The Norwegian army back then were small, and should probably be considered a militia. Nice in defence but more questionable in offense...

The Norwegian military strenght laid in supplying able seamen for the Navy.

It's my impression that the Norwegian contingent of the Auxillary Corps of Prince Friedrich of Hesse was up to the standard of the Corps. Led by a good commander they will IMO perform well.
Also there isn't much of a Navy to serve in at this time.

It was to make an overall description of the situation, but on we go:
A part of the Danish army, what could be thrown together in the winter of 1812 was detached to Jutland to augment the Holstein, Slesvig and Jutish troops. With the stocks of Rendsburg depot they were ambly supplied in arms but forced out by the French troops moving in. The total Danish troops number no more than 5000.

The Scandinavia contingent to Germany comprised 5000 Norwegians, 15000 Danes and 30000 Swedish troops.
The contingent were shipped to Pommerania in early April 1813 and stayed there until august when they joined in the campaign in Mecklenburg and part of the Danish contingent moved on Ratzeburg in September the rest going south and taking part in the Battle of Leipzig.
Not to have his troops in Jutland cut off in December Davout decides to move them to Hamburg.
(I must admit to not having done much research on the coalition war of 1813 to 14 and 1815, I just try to paint an overall picture of events moving on to more familiar stuff :eek:)
 
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Some clearing up of 1812-1813 events

1812 May: the war between Russia and the Osmannic Empire is ended by a peace treaty in Bukarest. Russia gains Bessarabia and parts of Moldova.
June, War of 1812 between Britain and the USA.
Napoleon and La Grande Armee enters Russia.
September: after the battle of Borodino the Russian army retreats and Napoleon enters Moscow on the 14. that burns on the next day.
October: Battle of QueenstownHeights. Napoleon leaves Moscow on the 19.
But with Napoleon on the run Frederick breaks away from alliance and enters into coalition with Russia, Prussia and Britain. The Scandinavian Kingdoms are to field an army of 50000 in Northern Germany. Britain is going to subsidy the Swedish contingent of 30000. Frederick insists on Prince Friedrich of Hesse as commander and Field Marshall von Fersen is commander of the Swedish contingent.
A part of the Danish army, what could be thrown together in the winter of 1812 was detached to Jutland to augment the Holstein, Slesvig and Jutish troops. With the stocks of Rendsburg depot they were amply supplied in arms but forced out by the French troops moving in. The total Danish troops number no more than 5000.
A determined French force moves into Holstein and proceeds into Slesvig and Jutland. The Danish forces take up flanking positions in Als and Funen after some skirmishing.

1813 March: at the outbreak of rebellion in Hamburg the city is occupied by Russian troops and the French troops in Jutland is hurriedly retreated. The Danish army is able to re-occupy Jutland, Slesvig and Holstein.
The Danish and Norwegian contingents, 5000 Norwegian and 15000 Danish troops muster at Copenhagen. The Swedish contingent is shipped to Malmö and the full contingent is shipped off to Pommerania. The Swedes laugh at the rag-tag appearance of the Danish army but the news from Jutland makes them think different.
April: the Scandinavian contingent arrived in Pommerania in early April 1813 and took part in the campaign.
May: the Russian army retreat from Hamburg and Davouts forces reoccupies it. The Danish army retreat into Holstein.
June-July: cease fire.
August: the Scandinavian contingent joined in the campaign in Mecklenburg and part of the Danish contingent moved on Ratzeburg in September to continue the pressure on Hamburg. The rest of the contingent goes south and take part in the Battle of Leipzig in October.
During the Battle of Leipzig the Scandinavian contingent earn a fighting reputation among the coalition forces but at severe losses. Friedrich of Hesse gives the troops a much needed rest.
Denmark-Norway is near bankruptcy and only the insistence of Frederick 6 makes Karl 13 ask Britain for further subsidies to keep the army in the field.
 
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1814 Jews get full citizens rights in Denmark and Norway.
A new law of primary education is issued in Denmark and Norway. All of age 7 through 14 must enter compulsory education.
Historian Christian Molbech of Denmark begins issuing his “Letters from Sweden in the year 1812” where the Swedes are depicted as friendly and hospitable. This opens the eyes of many Danes to their brothers east of the Oeresound. The letters are later issued in Sweden.
March: as part of the coalition the Scandinavians led by Friedrich of Hesse enters France. A Danish brig is sent off to patrol the Danish West Indies and St. Bartholomew, Swedish possession in the West Indies.
April: Napoleon abdicates.
Another Danish warship is sent off for the Danish West Indies/St. Bartholomew.
August: British troops enter Washington that is burned.
Cane sugar from the West Indies is again available in Europe.
During the congress of Vienna Frederick 6 is acknowledged as Karl 13 successor to the Swedish throne.
December: the War of 1812 is ended by the treaty of Ghent.
 
1815 January: Battle of New Orleans.
March: Napoleon leaves Elba. The 100 days.
Denmark-Norway and Sweden enters the last coalition and sends off an army alongside the Prussian.
June: end of the congress of Vienna. Pommerania is given to Prussia. Denmark-Norway does not get the Duchy of Lauenburg.
Frederick 6 is acknowledged as successor to the Swedish throne but the price is that the Union of Norway and Denmark is dissolved. When Frederick 6 succeeds to the Swedish throne he will become King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden and hold the three Kingdoms in Personal Union.
Holstein becomes part of the German League, ruled by Frederick 6 as Duke of Holstein through the German Chancellery.
Returning from the congress Frederick is hailed by all in Copenhagen. Later in the year he visits Kristiania, Norway. A parliament, the Storting is set up in Kristiania and a free constitution written. Legislative, executive and judicial powers are clearly separated. Most male above the age of 25 are accorded the right to vote at elections and the King is to be elected by the Storting. King Frederick is unanimously elected King of Norway as Frederick 1. A National Bank is planned and a Norwegian currency is to be issued. Frederick 6 enters debate with Professor Georg Sverdrup over the status of the Faeroe Islands, Iceland and Greenland. Frederick wants to keep these as part of Denmark but the Norwegians want to keep them as part of Norway. Prince Christian Frederick, the regent of Norway, is able to reach compromise and the North Atlantic islands are to be Union Lands with an administrative centre in Reykjavik, Iceland, keeping the legacy of ancient times. They are to be represented in Government by Norway.
 
Holstein becomes part of the German League, ruled by Frederick 6 as Duke of Holstein through the German Chancellery.

What about Slesvig :confused:

I demand a solution to the Slesvig question :D

... and the King is to be elected by the Storting.

I doubt this one. Even if Frederik has to accept the dissolution of the union, he will desperatly cling to the fact that Norway was/is a hereditary kingdom. And looking back at OTL, I do not see the Norwegians refusing that.

Frederik 6 debate with Professor Georg Sverdrup over the status of the Faeroe Islands, Iceland and Greenland. Frederick wants to keep these as part of Denmark but the Norwegians want to keep them as part of Norway. Prince Christian Frederick, the regent of Norway, is able to reach compromise and the North Atlantic islands are to be Union Lands with an administrative centre in Reykjavik, Iceland, keeping the legacy of ancient times. They are to be represented in Government by Norway.

Could work, not sure. Anyhow I would have suspected this to have been solved at Vienna. :)
 
What about Slesvig :confused:

I demand a solution to the Slesvig question :D

It will be dealt with, but not for now. Slesvig and Holstein is still linked to the Danish Kingdom and to each other by the Ribe constitution - am working on this one. ;)
You know how many people tried to work this one out???

I doubt this one. Even if Frederik has to accept the dissolution of the union, he will desperatly cling to the fact that Norway was/is a hereditary kingdom. And looking back at OTL, I do not see the Norwegians refusing that.

It was claimed by the Danish Kings to be hereditary - just read that recently - but the elective kingdom was never abolished.
The Norwegians in 1814 wanted to elect their King even when going for Independence and I used that as a model. (did I miss something?)

Could work, not sure. Anyhow I would have suspected this to have been solved at Vienna. :)

OTL it was solved at Vienna but TTL it would be negotiations with the Norwegians as how to divide the Empire. These were old Norwegian lands but of course Frederick would like to keep as much as possible as Danish lands. And it opens up for earlier parliamentarism and abolition of autocracy.
 
It will be dealt with, but not for now. Slesvig and Holstein is still linked to the Danish Kingdom and to each other by the Ribe constitution - am working on this one. ;)

So at this point Slesvig is considered a part of Holstein?

It was claimed by the Danish Kings to be hereditary - just read that recently - but the elective kingdom was never abolished.
The Norwegians in 1814 wanted to elect their King even when going for Independence and I used that as a model. (did I miss something?)

Not only did the danish kings claim Norway to be hereditary, the claim was valid. The Norwegian kingdom was hereditary. Sweden and Denmark was elective.

But yes, in 1814 and 1905 the Storting wanted to elect, but IMHO the situation here is a bit different.
 
So at this point Slesvig is considered a part of Holstein?

Actually not, Slesvig is a Danish duchy, but the two are tied together by the Ribe convention acnknowledged by Christian 1. to become King of Denmark. The "op ewige ungedelt" was adhered to strictly by the Ritterschaft of Holstein to conserve autonomy. Successive Danish Kings and Governments tried to loosen this Gordian knot. I'll give it a try.


Not only did the danish kings claim Norway to be hereditary, the claim was valid. The Norwegian kingdom was hereditary. Sweden and Denmark was elective.

But yes, in 1814 and 1905 the Storting wanted to elect, but IMHO the situation here is a bit different.

If Norway is hereditary and Denmark and Sweden is elective it'll create an interesting situation with the King of Denmark, de facto hereditary due to autocracy being hereditary King of another country.
The situation here is different from 1814 and the Norwegians won't mind having the King as King who succesfully combated famine in 1810 and is their hereditary King. But it would be a situation like the Slesvig-Holstein one, only here it is the Danish Royal line binding the countries together.
 
The Slesvig question:
I'm going to revise the 1814/15 parts regarding the conference of Vienna. If Norway is going to be separated from Denmark into a Kingdom in Union with Denmark and Holstein be part of the German League with the Danish King as Duke, Frederick would have some compensation - that'll be Slesvig separated from Holstein to be part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Thus the 1460 Ribe convention declared void and null.
But it will still leave room for German nationalism regarding Slesvig-Holstein.
 
The Slesvig question:
I'm going to revise the 1814/15 parts regarding the conference of Vienna. If Norway is going to be separated from Denmark into a Kingdom in Union with Denmark and Holstein be part of the German League with the Danish King as Duke, Frederick would have some compensation - that'll be Slesvig separated from Holstein to be part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Thus the 1460 Ribe convention declared void and null.
But it will still leave room for German nationalism regarding Slesvig-Holstein.

Sounds resonable :)
 
1815 January: Battle of New Orleans.
March: Napoleon leaves
Elba. The 100 days.
Denmark-Norway and
Sweden enters the last coalition and sends off an army alongside the Prussian.
June: end of the congress of
Vienna. Pommerania is given to Prussia. Denmark-Norway does not get the Duchy of Lauenburg.
Frederick 6 is acknowledged as successor to the Swedish throne but the price is that the Union of Norway and Denmark is dissolved. When Frederick 6 succeeds to the Swedish throne he will become King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden and hold the three Kingdoms in Personal Union.
Holstein becomes part of the German League, ruled by Frederick 6 as Duke of Holstein through the German Chancellery.
Frederick demand to be compensated for parting with Norway. He want Slesvig separated from Holstein to be part of the Kingdom of Denmark. He argue that Slesvig has been a Danish fief since ancient times and that the Counts of Holstein upon becoming Dukes of Slesvig 1386 had recognized the sovereign of Denmark as their feudal lord. Since 1460 the Danish King had been Duke of Slesvig until this very day. And the great powers had acknowledged this in 1721. Russia had renounced her claims to Holstein in 1767 ratified 1773 by Tsar Paul. Thus the 1460 Ribe convention of tying Slesvig and Holstein together forever should be declared void and null.
And so it came to be. Norway was made an independent Kingdom in personal union with Denmark through inheritance by the Danish royal line and the Ribe convention of 1460 declared void and null with great support of Tsar Alexander.
Returning from the congress
Frederick is hailed by all in Copenhagen. Later in the year he visits Kristiania, Norway. After much debate with, among others Professor Georg Sverdrup a parliament, the Storting is set up in Kristiania and a constitution given/written. This constitution is a mirror of its time with the Kingdom being hereditary and giving the King much power but with the legislative, executive and judicial powers clearly separated. Also most male above the age of 25 are accorded the right to vote at elections.
The King is hailed by the Storting and everybody else in Norway as Frederick 1.
A National Bank is planned and a Norwegian currency is to be issued.
 
1816 The economic depression in Britain increases immigration to the USA. In Europe the depression hit hard on Denmark-Norway, but the internal market with Sweden ease the pain.
The plantation owners of the West Indies are asked also to produce cotton for the internal market. This is mainly due to the explicit wishes of King Frederick, who during the war had to have his army cut their coats short in order to preserve cloth for repairs.
A plan for building a new Danish navy is brought up. Ten ships of the line and ten frigates are to be built along with 16 lesser warships.
The Norwegian navy will be built up to the same strength. An intermediate Naval Staff is set up in Bergen.
The Kings direct rule is diminishing due to the growing complexity of Government. This is seen in Sweden as a guarantee against too autocratic Government by Frederick 6.
The building of a royal castle in Kristiania is initiated.
Arc-duke Karl August of Saxe-Weimar grants his country a constitution, the first in Germany.
Prussia declares compulsory military service.
 
1817 The Wartburg fest – German students gather to demand German unity and burns non-German books.
Suspension in Britain of the Habeas Corpus Act in the wake of workers riots.

1818 King Karl 13 of Sweden dies. Frederick 6(1) is elected and crowned King Frederick 2 of Sweden in Stockholm. King Frederick declares that he is going to uphold the laws of Sweden and keep the Riksdag.
From Stockholm Frederick travels to Kristiania and then back to Copenhagen hailed by the crowd in the three cities.
There is some talk that the King should reside in each of the three capitols for a period of the year, but Frederick argues that the union Government has been set up in Copenhagen and he must be in close contact with his ministers. Frederick does promise to visit his three capitols regularly and set up a prince as regent in both Stockholm and Kristiania.
The name of the Kingdom is to be The Union of Scandinavian Kingdoms.
The negotiations regarding the Government of the Union are commenced in Copenhagen and the Act of Union settles that, the Storting of Norway and the Riksdag of Sweden is going to be represented at the Union Government in Copenhagen by a Minister, who’s going to be assisted by a Chancellery to take care of day to day business. Norway also represents the North Atlantic Union Lands. The Union Lands council in Reykjavik sends a representative to the Storting in Kristiania. In the Storting the Minister is elected whereas in Sweden the Estates comprising the Riksdag is to reach compromise for appointing a Minister. To soften things up each Estate is to send a representative to the Union council in Copenhagen as part of the Swedish Chancellery. This is an offspring of the Norwegian constitution.
Three golden crowns are added to the top corner of the flags of the Union Kingdoms to signify the new status.
The King is allowed to a regent in both Norway and Sweden. Prince Christian Frederick is sent to Sweden to reside at Stockholm as regent. His brother Ferdinand is sent off to Kristiania as regent.
A joint war council is set up with Field Marshal von Fersen as head to facilitate the command of units spread all over the Union. The council is in control of both army and navy forces of the Union. An attack on any UnionKingdom or territory is an attack on all. This is to counter any foreign (German) attack on Jutland and having only Danish forces to respond with.
The first practical issue of the joint war council is to expand the Danish-Norwegian Marines regiment to also supply Marines for Swedish men-of-war. The first assignment of the new regiment is to reinforce the Union presence in the West Indies, Africa – Gold Coast and India – Tranquebar.
A young Dane, Helmuth von Molkte enlists in the Union army.
In Sweden the ten ships of the line and the five frigates is going to be augmented by one frigate and a number of lesser warships. The war council is to coordinate the building programme with the building programmes of Denmark and Norway.
A new Admiralty is gathered in Copenhagen joining the Admiralty of Denmark and Sweden as well as the Naval Staff of Norway.
The Scandinavian occupation troops are pulled back from France. The lessons of the Napoleonic campaigns are to be studied closely the following years. One important lesson learned is the massing of artillery when committed to battle. Also the use of light troops is to be recognized.
With his new enlarged Union of Kingdoms King Frederick 6/1/2 asks to become part of the Great Powers conference. Frederick is politely told to mind his own business.
A Union warship arrests a plantation owner in the West Indies that tries to smuggle slaves to the islands. The slaves are confiscated and sold at a public auction. The plantation owner is sent to Denmark for imprisonment.
German liberal students unite in the Allgemeine Deutsche Burschenshaft.
Constitutions on a French/English model are given in Baden, Württenberg and Bavaria.
 
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