Can i ask in modern day dynamics of ottoman greek relations reading back it seems greeks military are stronger than the ottomans, now are the ottomans now stronger than greece?, do the ottomans threaten and sabre rattle greece. Do the ottomans aim their nukes at greece, also cqn the ottoman military defeat the greeks on their own now?
Es Geloybte Aretz Continuation Thread
- Thread starter carlton_bach
- Start date
I must admit I did not give Australia any great amount of thought, but integrating Papua into Australia would be an interesting development, albeit interesting in the Chinese curse sense.
I also speculate whether without the gravity pull of Port Morseby and the mining concerns, the economic and politican centre of this New Guinea would be in the northern islands.
I have not worked that out in detail, but I assume what keeps actual war from happening is a kind of Cold War analogue - German-backed Ottoman Empire facing off against French-backed Greece knowing that if they actually start anything serious, they could find themselves in the middle of a continentwide nuclear exchange. But with the history of the early twentieth century, it would be a miracle if Greek-Ottoman relations were anything but hostile. And the Ottoman Empire is becoming far stronger than Greece as it closes the modernisation gap. In 1900, Greece had a realistic chance of taking Ottoman territory in a war of conquest. By 1930, this would have been a dangerous gamble despite their crushing superiority in all modern arms. In 1960, Greece needs to seriously consider whether it has the capability to defend against an Ottoman attack. In 1990, they know that an all-out military confrontation can only end one way. Of course the Ottoman government will relish the pürospect, diplomatically. I assume there will be regional flashpoints and frozen conflicts, just no idea what they would look like in detail.
What is Poland relationship like with other the Baden-Baden countries espcially Lithuiania, does Poland believe its a first among equals of Baden-Baden nations?
While we're on the topic, the Dutch part of New Guinea will undoubtedly also develop differently without WW2 and NATO. Perhaps there will be three New Guineas, or perhaps 1 covering the lot, as the Dutch government was never happy about leaving it to Indonesia (but the USA was not really into the Dutch doing anything to stop an Indonesian takeover).
Pretty much yes. Poland is easily the most populous, militarily most powerful, and politically most cohesive country among that family. Obviously there is a specific kind of rivalry with Lithuania and to a lesser extent Ruthenia because of their shared heritage of the Old Commonwealth, but Warsaw basically considers the others junior partners and their territorial disagreements family quarrels.
Needless to say Finland takes a dim view of any such aspirations.
The War in the Air, H.G. Wells, 1907 [post canon, OTL]
It was the leading sensation of the 1907 soirees; that celebrated demonstration-room was all too small for its exhibition. Brave soldiers, leading Zionists, deserving novelists, noble ladies, congested the narrow passage and thrust distinguished elbows into ribs the world would not willingly let break, deeming themselves fortunate if they could see "just a little bit of the rail." Inaudible, but convincing, the great inventor expounded his discovery, and sent his obedient little model of the trains of the future up gradients, round curves, and across a sagging wire. It ran along its single rail, on its single wheels, simple and sufficient; it stopped, reversed, stood still, balancing perfectly. It maintained its astounding equilibrium amidst a thunder of applause. The audience dispersed at last, discussing how far they would enjoy crossing an abyss on a wire cable.
"Suppose the gyroscope stopped!"
Few of them anticipated a tenth of what the Brennan monorail would do for their railway securities and the face of the world.
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It's a lovely image, but I regret to say the real Hochlandbahn is just a narrow-gauge single-track line that connects the highlands with the northern coast. It was designed to foster plantation development inland and everyone who ever worked in Central New Guinea will tell you that is a brilliant idea that will invariably succeed beyond your wildest expectations and turn out much easier than you thought.
how do the baden baden countries face post second russo war? Does the war cement their national identities also in general how do they fair rebuilding?
Can i ask for help, can someone explain to me carlton point about prussian poles and their intergration im confused they gone from a actual group to ancestry im confused i kinda get but still when did they all become german and choose germen language over polish at home?
Secondly im still confused by the ottoman nukes are they a nuclear power or not? Why are the ottomans using german nukes. Why not just develop them yourselves they have fuck you oil money, and need be rally enough smart muslims by using the caliphate. Why rent nukes? Espcially as the german public are against germany giving nukes to them. It makes no sense. If germany elects a party against ottoman nukes they are screwed aren't they? Why not just build your own nukes and be independent and not reliant on germany it makes no sense.
Especially both Iran and russia have nukes, thus making ottomans inferior as they these have to rely on germans constantly updating them which they can stop. Also countries with the power to make bombs do if a revival does it Pakistan chose the bomb over sanctions, saudi arabia have stated if iran gets they will get it, both south korea and Japan can make it in short term, where does this policy come from.
The comparison was used akin to the commonwealth and the uk but no one recognises commonwealth as nuclear powers they just hosted the uks nukes. Also the common wealth is unique their interests are the literal same. This factually no where similar the german ottoman relationship. First german public are against secondly germany has shown to abandon the ottomans multiple times.
Also sorry but the ottoman mindset its also stupid, every decade they are in a war or conflict literally. They lost libya to italy, they lost balkan territory to balkan countries, cyprus to the UK, they lost albania to to italy again!, russia retook the Caucasus, france is meddling in levant. Germany didn't do shit for them in these conflicts now, and more importantly these nations are still ottoman enemies why not develop nukes to tell italy and france to f off because they clearly want to carve them up. Literally most of their neighbours want to carve them up so they outsource there defence to a nation thats most of the time not defended them makes zero sense. Leigitmalty are the ottoman leadership stupid? Its a key part of french policy to be nuclear independent than just relying on the US they are better friends than ottos and germany here.
Another reason for ottoman independent nukes its great prestige and national idnetity. Its a source of national pride of pakistan for its nuclear capabilities, vast majority of Pakistanis celebrate it as a national achievement and point of common unity. This could benefit ottomanism greatly. As stated arabs, turks, and kurds fought in trenches togather all of suddan a project that can bring national unity on a large scale is turned down. Also it affirms to people the empire is strong and a great powers, especially when the empire almost surrender without a fight in second russo war. Whats speaks of strengh relying on german nukes or building your own?
Apologies this tl is awesome but im just perplexed by this ottomans have all the resource, manpower, money, and leigitmate reason to build their own nukes. Ottomans also have all the reason not to trust germany and outsource their defence yet they do is mind. Im just don't get ottomans have every reason to build and every reason not to buy foreign yet thet i need to know why they chose foreign over domestic.
Apologies for rant im just confused and feel it makes no sense the ottoman nukes, prussian poles im just an idiot i just need someone to explain to me like im 5 pls.
Secondly im still confused by the ottoman nukes are they a nuclear power or not? Why are the ottomans using german nukes. Why not just develop them yourselves they have fuck you oil money, and need be rally enough smart muslims by using the caliphate. Why rent nukes? Espcially as the german public are against germany giving nukes to them. It makes no sense. If germany elects a party against ottoman nukes they are screwed aren't they? Why not just build your own nukes and be independent and not reliant on germany it makes no sense.
Especially both Iran and russia have nukes, thus making ottomans inferior as they these have to rely on germans constantly updating them which they can stop. Also countries with the power to make bombs do if a revival does it Pakistan chose the bomb over sanctions, saudi arabia have stated if iran gets they will get it, both south korea and Japan can make it in short term, where does this policy come from.
The comparison was used akin to the commonwealth and the uk but no one recognises commonwealth as nuclear powers they just hosted the uks nukes. Also the common wealth is unique their interests are the literal same. This factually no where similar the german ottoman relationship. First german public are against secondly germany has shown to abandon the ottomans multiple times.
Also sorry but the ottoman mindset its also stupid, every decade they are in a war or conflict literally. They lost libya to italy, they lost balkan territory to balkan countries, cyprus to the UK, they lost albania to to italy again!, russia retook the Caucasus, france is meddling in levant. Germany didn't do shit for them in these conflicts now, and more importantly these nations are still ottoman enemies why not develop nukes to tell italy and france to f off because they clearly want to carve them up. Literally most of their neighbours want to carve them up so they outsource there defence to a nation thats most of the time not defended them makes zero sense. Leigitmalty are the ottoman leadership stupid? Its a key part of french policy to be nuclear independent than just relying on the US they are better friends than ottos and germany here.
Another reason for ottoman independent nukes its great prestige and national idnetity. Its a source of national pride of pakistan for its nuclear capabilities, vast majority of Pakistanis celebrate it as a national achievement and point of common unity. This could benefit ottomanism greatly. As stated arabs, turks, and kurds fought in trenches togather all of suddan a project that can bring national unity on a large scale is turned down. Also it affirms to people the empire is strong and a great powers, especially when the empire almost surrender without a fight in second russo war. Whats speaks of strengh relying on german nukes or building your own?
Apologies this tl is awesome but im just perplexed by this ottomans have all the resource, manpower, money, and leigitmate reason to build their own nukes. Ottomans also have all the reason not to trust germany and outsource their defence yet they do is mind. Im just don't get ottomans have every reason to build and every reason not to buy foreign yet thet i need to know why they chose foreign over domestic.
Apologies for rant im just confused and feel it makes no sense the ottoman nukes, prussian poles im just an idiot i just need someone to explain to me like im 5 pls.
Germany 1618-48 had the religious divisions that Mother India experienced 1947:
[Portrait of First Daughter]
If 1871 Prussians could be Germans, Poles can be also. Nukes do not a Nation make.
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im confused sorry what is your point? my point about nukes is about ottomans, not germany. With Germany and poles im too stupid to understand what is being said im asking can someone dumb it down for me to understand. My post was about two things germany poles, and ottomans and nukes you seem to have combined them into one thing?
My points were [woke pretensions dropped]:
Poles are tall, blond blue eyed, hard working people who believe in family and the Catholic Faith, speak Polish and live on the eastern periphery of Prussia.
If they were [proud enough to drop the Polish language] they could live on the western periphery of Prussia and would be indistinguishable from the German people living there.
By analogy, my point is, that constructing a weapon of mass destruction is neither as simple nor as meritorious as you believe it to be; likewise many Indian Muslims who left India proper in favour of the Pakistan project might today be regretting not to have gone to, say, Hyderabad.
Understand please, you posted a rant, you seemed to hurt: I answered as best as I could.
Poles are tall, blond blue eyed, hard working people who believe in family and the Catholic Faith, speak Polish and live on the eastern periphery of Prussia.
If they were [proud enough to drop the Polish language] they could live on the western periphery of Prussia and would be indistinguishable from the German people living there.
By analogy, my point is, that constructing a weapon of mass destruction is neither as simple nor as meritorious as you believe it to be; likewise many Indian Muslims who left India proper in favour of the Pakistan project might today be regretting not to have gone to, say, Hyderabad.
Understand please, you posted a rant, you seemed to hurt: I answered as best as I could.
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I still don't understand what your saying about pakistan, Poles now i kinda get.
EDIT: sorry gone on a random tangent about Pakistan and how it views nukes not relavent to the tl. Im basically asking why is the ottoman nuclear programe outsourced instead of being native.
wait just realised this very off topic sorry my reasoning is i don't understand why ottomans outsourced nukes instead of making themselves. I then listed reasons why they would build them instead and used Pakistan as an example muslim country thats very diverse, it helped bring legitimacy and some pride to the nation. Ottomans generally tend to take L's so why not go for a easy win?
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Thank you for considering my point on Poland. We may perhaps put this away for the moment. Clearly you know more about Pakistan, while I stand further back.
I have over the course of Es Geloybte Aretz etc done some postings on Fatima Jinnah and Choudhary Rahmat Ali. So I do not think that I am unfair to the Pakistan national project.
In regard to the nuclear strategy within this timeline I suspect the author might have intended some pun on Wolf Graf von Baudissin. But this is not for me to say.
Thanks again for our interaction.
I have over the course of Es Geloybte Aretz etc done some postings on Fatima Jinnah and Choudhary Rahmat Ali. So I do not think that I am unfair to the Pakistan national project.
In regard to the nuclear strategy within this timeline I suspect the author might have intended some pun on Wolf Graf von Baudissin. But this is not for me to say.
Thanks again for our interaction.
I'd say Germans could be Prussians and Poles could be Prussians.
Good Prussian needed to be good subject of Prusian king, but good German needed to be, before all, German...
In fact old Prussia was better place for a Pole than united Germany, and paradox is these were not Junkers, who were most anti-Polish in German Empire, but middle class. For example German middle class have seen influx of seasonal Polish workers as Polish danger to Germany's eastern frontier, for Junkers these Poles were just source of cheap labour, nothing to dread about. Similary German store owners in Posen opposed anti-Polish policy, as last thing they wanted was nationalist trade war and Poles boycotting their businesses.
Well, except for being Catholic (save for parts of Upper Silesia, possibly).
Wait you have? Which pages i need to see this.
Apologies if i sounded rude not my intention i simply did alot of my uni work on Pakistan military relation to the state, and being pakistani ethnicity naturally i got defensive sorry.
Contiuning on this you have to understand i literally only about nazi treatment of poles, im completely no nothing about poles in Germany other than german dislike poles and couldn't assimilate them. Thats why im constantly asking about this topic i know nothing so im confused all the time.
Apologies but isn't a key tenet germanisation/prussianisation was the destruction/supression of Polish culture and identity? Have the policies that caused discrimination against the polish identity been stopped? Ignoring language wouldn't a polish not be culturally different enough to not count as German? Woudn't this reinforce the polish identity due to the us vs them mentality?
Can i ask what would cause Poles to drop the Polish Language?
On the topic of assimilation and German identity what is the situation on French and Danish are they becoming a assimilated and becoming a more heritage or hanging on? If the latter how are they surviving and what did they do which poles didn't do?
Right. (That's where my ancestors come from!) But I was focused on the "eastern periphery of Prussia," since that was what @Stendhal was talking about.