Cold War alternative mini-scenarios thread

Monk78

Kicked
The anti-nuclear protests in Europe against Pershing II get a harsh response with US guards of a missile base shooting some protesters
How will this impact US -European relations?
 
The anti-nuclear protests in Europe against Pershing II get a harsh response with US guards of a missile base shooting some protesters
How will this impact US -European relations?
It will test relations, but NATO overall knows the threat of the Soviets is the bigger priority.
 
The anti-nuclear protests in Europe against Pershing II get a harsh response with US guards of a missile base shooting some protesters
How will this impact US -European relations?

Personally in the UK (regarding the basing of Tomahawk GLCM's) not a lot if its around the same time as the Miners Strike.

It will test relations, but NATO overall knows the threat of the Soviets is the bigger priority.

2nd

And I presume it would be just the same for Tomahawk GLCM's in the UK
 

Monk78

Kicked
What kind of soviet soft power can influence western youth ? Theater, orchestra, ballerina, sports ? Can it invite a conservative backlash against them esp in US
 
No Canadian Armed Forces Unification? To my understanding it was a big hit to moral and personnel retention.

First world buyers for the Vickers MBTs? I could see Canada/Australia picking up the Vickers Mk.3 instead of the Leopard 1 as their Centurion Replacements.

Tito cracks down harder and completely rolls back the Croatian Spring? Might that produce domestic support for the Bugojno group?

Project 571 (PLA coup against Mao during the Cultural Revolution) goes ahead? Ok, prolly not a mini-scenario per-say...

NATO takes its democracy requirements more seriously and denies Greece and Turkey membership?

America hands over the Shah of Iran? Could that salvage the alliance that was the lynchpin of western geo-strategy in the region?

Diem and his brothers are exiled (as was originally the plan) rather than executed?
 
-Peru invades Chile in 1975; it is mostly successful, but the west backs stiff resistance to Peruvian occupation and aligned leftists; Peru's economy is crippled and the region is heavily destabilized, teetering on a wider war
-Jadid retains power after crushing Assad's coup; eventually unites with Al-Bakr's Iraq sometime in the 1970s
-Pro-Vietnamese KR faction takes power in 1975 instead of Pol Pot's faction; Thailand ends up falling to revolution by the very end of the 1970s
-Sukarno defeats Suharto's coup; eventually propels the PKI into power by the late 1960s in a twisted sort of self-fulfilling prophecy for the Suhartists
-Thomas Sankara remains in power all the way until the early 2000s. He helps revolution spread throughout various neglected parts of Africa and the rest of the third world
-DPRK commando attacks are more sucessful in 1967-1968 and grow in strength and frequency for several more years. Greater chaos, polarization, and instability across the ROK. The ROK doesn't even begin to take on democratic trappings until the early 2000s
-Communist Revolutionary attacks in West Germany snowball during the German Autumn leading to a socio-politically paralyzed FRG for several years
 
Last edited:

Monk78

Kicked
Soviets go to extreme in gunship diplomacy, with a SAG being sent to flex their muscles in every international crisis from 60s to late 80s ( supporting soviet friendly states and non- state actors)
Obviously they have zero chance of standing up against USN in a shooting war and possibly badly mauled even by French / British but serves an important function to intimidate 3rd world nations and a trip wire force
What warships should they use in these missions ?
My suggestion is a mix of kotlin skorry Kanin sverdlov kresta II and kashin. These task forces could
1 Blockade enemy ports / enforce quarantine
2 Offensive minelaying
3 Provide air protection umbrella for ports
4 Radar picket ships help plug gaps in coverage
5 Carry marines for small scale operations behind enemy lines
6 shore bombardment
7 escort convoys of friendly forces
 
Last edited:
What kind of soviet soft power can influence western youth ? Theater, orchestra, ballerina, sports ? Can it invite a conservative backlash against them esp in US
I've always thought that the Soviets missed a golden opportunity in accepting, embracing, and co-opting western counter-culture movements, specifically: electronic house and techno-rave music and hip-hop; and to lesser extants: punk, metal, grunge, rap, counter-cultural hippy rock/ folk rock, alternative/ indie rock, and even ironically reggae to some degree. It seems to me that each of these genre "scenes" had the potential to be turned into soft power daggers that the Soviets could twist and manipulate against the cultural stability of the West. Each one of them could've been used to subtly spread class concioussness and provoke popular resentment and antagonism against the ruling class. Even if Soviet hardliners had remained in power through the end of the 80's and on into the 90s and 00s, I doubt the gerontocracy could've seen past their own dogmatic hostility towards these decadent Western sub-cultures that they would've seen as being just as, if not even more dangerous to their own rule and difficult to control "once the cat was out of the bag." KGB agents providing funds, ideological indoctrination, and lyrical and aesthetic "suggestions" to radical musicians, artists, and other creatives in the West seems like a low-cost investment with a potential high-value return in the soft power realm of the Cold War with knock on political and socio-economic effects down the road. Stand-up comedians, newspaper comics sections, and children's television programming and books could've been additional softpower realms to easily, powerfully, and subtly influence public concioussness across the West. The Soviet bloc had its own countercultural musicians, including electronic music, funk, and other genres, but they never achieved the worldwide popularity that those from the West did. Soviet authorities were heavily engaged in monitoring and controlling these bands and ensuring they never strayed too far from acceptable norms. But imagine if KGB agents had convinced up-and-coming DJs and Hip Hop artists to incorporate Marxist-Lenininst ideology and pro-Soviet stances into their works. Generations of youth could've been propelled down a far more favorbale path for Soviet leadership in the future. Conservatives across the West often like to accuse these movements and tendencies of being de facto Soviet agents, but this was never really the case. What if it actually had been? It could've eventually spiraled into an escalating series of cultural crackdowns and increasing resistance to authority across the West. Lots of potential I think for an ATL
 
But imagine if KGB agents had convinced up-and-coming DJs and Hip Hop artists to incorporate Marxist-Lenininst ideology and pro-Soviet stances into their works. Generations of youth could've been propelled down a far more favorbale path for Soviet leadership in the future. Conservatives across the West often like to accuse these movements and tendencies of being de facto Soviet agents, but this was never really the case. What if it actually had been? It could've eventually spiraled into an escalating series of cultural crackdowns and increasing resistance to authority across the West. Lots of potential I think for an ATL
My first thought about things like this is always: How? Like is this even feasible? Spending state funds to send Soviet agents into the United States not to collect valuable information from intelligence informants but rather to spend time hanging out at dive bars and acid parties passing Foreign Languages Publishing books into the hands of underground artists? Especially considering that left-wing ideologies were spreading by American figures or groups cheaper and more effectively than KGB Agents could do already. Frankly, I don’t even see this having any significant effect anyway - the nature of record labels and the music industry already sort of precludes a famous rock band touring an album explicitly about Marxism-Leninism. So you’re stuck in the underground scenes, which isn’t changing much from OTL anyway except for a few more odd subgenres. And that’s if such a project can even be done, which I think is sort of dubious. Honestly this seems to be like a way to burn cash that the Soviets didn’t have from the mid 1970s onwards.
 
Last edited:
Leclerc doesn't die in an airplane crash in 1947, but instead becomes an actor of the rebuilding French forces and a voice in favor of negociation in the war in Indochina.
Will he finally force a purge of the officers and civilians who are deliberately sabotaging negociation efforts? As the overseer of French forces in North Africa, can he help maintain the discussions between the moderate autonomists in Algeria and the French government?
 
Eisenhower gives United Fruit the middle finger and doesn't do anything to Guatemala. Good neighbor policy is continued and the Soviets do nothing to Latin America. Cuban Missile Crisis never happens as the Bay of Pigs never happens. Latin America is generally in better shape institutionally. Venezuela is still fucked though.
 
In the 1966 Palomares incident, the wind carries the fourth bomb inland (instead of out to sea as IOTL), and the intact bomb detonates on Spanish soil.

ric350
 

Riain

Banned
The Australian Army stands up the 1st Division with all regular units in 1960, but does not undertake the Pentropic reorganization.

The ending of conscription in 1960 sees the CMF drop from 51,000 to 25,000 over 2 years.

Changes to the Defence Act in 1964 make it easier for the government to deploy the now all volunteer CMF overseas in support of the regular Army.

May 1966 the Australian Defence Force deploys its first Joint Task Force to Phuoc Tuy province South Vietnam, made up of 1 Brigade and 9sqn RAAF, using 1st Division HQ as the the Joint Force HQ.

Without conscription to maintain a large infantry force maximum use is made of the Armys other capability such as armour and medium artillery. Further maximum use is made of RAN and RAAF units to compliment the scarce infantry units, commanded by the Joint Force HQ. This is a first for Australia.

The CMF raises a battalion of volunteers for service in Vietnam on multiple occasions in 1968-69.

Australia winds down its commitment in line with the US. The use of 1st Division HQ as a deployable joint force HQ has been fully embedded in ADF thinking, as is joint operations.

The ADF goes through a reduction in size and reorganisation. The Regular Army 1st Division is organised into 2 identical multi-mission brigades with 2 infantry battalions and a mixed armoured unit with the 5th battalion being in the 'raise' part of raise-train-sustain cycle.

In 1975 in the wake of a coup in Portugal fighting breaks out in East Timor, and Indonesia threatens to invade. A UN resolution is passed and Australia undertakes a joint force operation to quell the fighting and guard against the Indonesian invasion.
 

Monk78

Kicked
Belize is attacked by Guatemala and UK is drawn into fighting them and a Cuban expeditionary force

no Cuban forces are sent to Angolan civil war , how will this affect the outcome ? How successful will RSA be in fighting?
 
Last edited:
Top