Challenge: Greater Croatia

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to keep Croatia from losing any of the territory it had in the 2nd Yugoslavia while also incorporating at least 1/3 of Bosnia by the present day with a POD after its declaration of independence. Bonus points if it gains all of Bosnia.

 

[abc123]

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to keep Croatia from losing any of the territory it had in the 2nd Yugoslavia while also incorporating at least 1/3 of Bosnia by the present day with a POD after its declaration of independence. Bonus points if it gains all of Bosnia.

Hmmm, for something like that, you need that USA turns eyes away from Balkans temporalry. Let's say in 1993.
Let's say, if something major happens in USA that could be possible. Or if George H. W. Bush get's second term.
So, one of peace proposals for Bosnia and Herzegovina is division of B&H in 3 republics in weak union.
If that is accepted ( and it most probably would be accepted if USA didn't talked Muslims not to accept that ) that weak union could pretty soon dissolve, and croatian part of B&H could join to Croatia.
If Operation Storm & Flash go as OTL, and Eastern Slavonia is returned to Croatia as OTL, there it is...

 

[Max Sinister]

Most "nazis win WW2" TLs should do. IIRC it had all of Bosnia at that time already.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Most "nazis win WW2" TLs should do. IIRC it had all of Bosnia at that time already.

Too early for the challenge and it didn't have all its postwar territory anyway.

 

[Alex Richards]

Well it's quite simple really.

Miloshevic and Tudjman made a secret pact before the Bosnian War to divide Bosnia-Herzegovina between them (Tudjman for example viewed Bosnia as an artificial state). If the Washington talks that led to the Federation of the Bosniak and Croat states in Bosnia fail, then it's quite possible that the Croats will remain as independent as the Serbs in Western Herzegovina, and can continue to gain much of the territory of Central Bosnia they claimed

Add in talks between Karadzic and Boban (Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia) leading to Croatian support for the Serbs, and Miloshevic engaging in backroom talks that essentially involve selling out Knin (as he was really looking to do by '93), and we've got it when the inevitable referrendums roll round.

A good PoD might be Izetbegovic getting killed during the kidnapping, leading to a much weaker Bosniak state and less attempts to gain NATO support rather than simply forming militias.

This situation could even lead to the remaining Bosnian state ending up split between the republic based in Bihac (a Croat puppet) and the republic based in Sarajevo (a Serb puppet).

 

[abc123]

Well it's quite simple really.

Miloshevic and Tudjman made a secret pact before the Bosnian War to divide Bosnia-Herzegovina between them (Tudjman for example viewed Bosnia as an artificial state). If the Washington talks that led to the Federation of the Bosniak and Croat states in Bosnia fail, then it's quite possible that the Croats will remain as independent as the Serbs in Western Herzegovina, and can continue to gain much of the territory of Central Bosnia they claimed

Add in talks between Karadzic and Boban (Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia) leading to Croatian support for the Serbs, and Miloshevic engaging in backroom talks that essentially involve selling out Knin (as he was really looking to do by '93), and we've got it when the inevitable referrendums roll round.

A good PoD might be Izetbegovic getting killed during the kidnapping, leading to a much weaker Bosniak state and less attempts to gain NATO support rather than simply forming militias.

This situation could even lead to the remaining Bosnian state ending up split between the republic based in Bihac (a Croat puppet) and the republic based in Sarajevo (a Serb puppet).

A fine attempt...

 

[Marko]

How about an even better solution.

Tuđman does not divide BiH with Milošević but actually supports the Bosnians. When the conflict in BiH began almost 1/3 of HVO units were made out of Muslims. Croats and Bosnians/Muslims fight throughout the war together against the Serbs avoiding the idiotic conflict of 1993.

This would result in the fact that Bosnian Serbs in the west and Serbs in Croatia outside eastern Slavonia would be cut of because Posavina would not be abandoned/sold out. Without direct link to Serbia, Serb tertories in the west would soon start to colapse due to shortages. Quite likely by late '93, early '94 they would be overrun/disolved/surendered. Forged in war Bosnians/Muslims and Croats would create a real Confederacy or even come to an agreement over Croat majority areas to be joined to Croatia.


The other almost ASB-ish option is that USA supports Slovenia and Croatia against the JNA and Serbs as part of War on Communism. USA supplies them with weapons and provides air support for Croat ground troops. Since at the time BiH was still part of Yugoslavia all the territories taken by Croat+western allies would quite likely become the new Croatian state.

 

[Alex Richards]

How about an even better solution.

Tuđman does not divide BiH with Milošević but actually supports the Bosnians. When the conflict in BiH began almost 1/3 of HVO units were made out of Muslims. Croats and Bosnians/Muslims fight throughout the war together against the Serbs avoiding the idiotic conflict of 1993.

This would result in the fact that Bosnian Serbs in the west and Serbs in Croatia outside eastern Slavonia would be cut of because Posavina would not be abandoned/sold out. Without direct link to Serbia, Serb tertories in the west would soon start to colapse due to shortages. Quite likely by late '93, early '94 they would be overrun/disolved/surendered. Forged in war Bosnians/Muslims and Croats would create a real Confederacy or even come to an agreement over Croat majority areas to be joined to Croatia.


The other almost ASB-ish option is that USA supports Slovenia and Croatia against the JNA and Serbs as part of War on Communism. USA supplies them with weapons and provides air support for Croat ground troops. Since at the time BiH was still part of Yugoslavia all the territories taken by Croat+western allies would quite likely become the new Croatian state.

That wouldn't work. Any situation with Bosniaks and Croats continuing to work that closely together automatically negates any notion of handing territory over to Croatia, as that then vailidates the Serb position.

 

[abc123]

This option is also possible: Izetbegović had offered to Tuđman to annex Herzegovina to Croatia. Tuđman refused to do so. But, if Tuđman accepted, Croatia could look like this:

If the deal included giving Bihać area to Croatia, and common fight agains the Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, that's pretty plausible thing.

 

[Alex Richards]

This option is also possible: Izetbegović had offered to Tuđman to annex Herzegovina to Croatia. Tuđman refused to do so. But, if Tuđman accepted, Croatia could look like this:

If the deal included giving Bihać area to Croatia, and common fight agains the Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, that's pretty plausible thing.

That map appears to have annexed the eastern parts to Serbia.

 

[abc123]

That map appears to have annexed the eastern parts to Serbia.

Well, yes. I doubt that Serbia would allow that Muslims conquer that area.
Also, exchange of Bihać for Croatian support against Serbs iss plausible, because that Muslims ( about 200 000 of them ) will be nescesarry for repopulating od western part of ex-Republika Srpska.

 

[Alex Richards]

Well, yes. I doubt that Serbia would allow that Muslims conquer that area.
Also, exchange of Bihać for Croatian support against Serbs iss plausible, because that Muslims ( about 200 000 of them ) will be nescesarry for repopulating od western part of ex-Republika Srpska.

But if the massive Serb areas in the West of the country have been conquered, it seems unlikely that the East would remain in Serb control.

 

[Wendell]

But if the massive Serb areas in the West of the country have been conquered, it seems unlikely that the East would remain in Serb control.

I disagree because the East benefits rom sharing a border with Serbia making supply far easier than was the case in the West.

 

[abc123]

I disagree because the East benefits rom sharing a border with Serbia making supply far easier than was the case in the West.

True, and Serbia would be under much bigger pressure to defend that area if western areas were conquered.
Also, that would make any peace deal impossible, so division of B-H would be permanent.