Challenge: Eurabia
- Thread starter Cowd
- Start date
A worse Black Plague I suppose.
However, their is virtually no way to actually have the idea of Eurabia come true since at that time Islam was more progressive and generally more free and egalitarian than most of Christianity, that and it does'nt matter if Europe becomes predominantly Muslim, it will still see itself as Europe, not as some Eurabia blob.
However, their is virtually no way to actually have the idea of Eurabia come true since at that time Islam was more progressive and generally more free and egalitarian than most of Christianity, that and it does'nt matter if Europe becomes predominantly Muslim, it will still see itself as Europe, not as some Eurabia blob.
Charles Martel is crushed at Tours. The Muslims conquer the Franks, and expand against the pagans in Germany. The Umayyad Caliphate includes most of Europe by the end of the 9th century.
Hendryk
Banned
That's the way it happens in The Years of Rice and Salt: empty Europe is repopulated by Muslims. Maghribi Arabs and West Africans in the Iberian peninsula, Italy, France and the British Isles; Ottomans in the Balkans; and Islamicized descendents of the Golden Horde in central and eastern Europe as well as Scandinavia.
After three tries, the Turks might have taken Vienna, shouldn't they?
That would make some starting point.
Even though the Ottomans accepted their Christian subjects to keep and practice their religions, more and more people would be attracted by the culture of the rulers ...
That would make some starting point.
Even though the Ottomans accepted their Christian subjects to keep and practice their religions, more and more people would be attracted by the culture of the rulers ...
Some combination of the earlier-mentioned defeat of Charles Martel at Tours and a much earlier fall of the Byzantines (say, during either the first or second Arab sieges of Constantinople) would be your best bet, IMHO. The former would prevent the formation of the Carolingian empire, while the latter would probably cause the Russians to Islamicize, not to mention taking out one of the bastions of the Church.
Anaxagoras
Banned
Anything after the 800s is ASB, in my opinion. Once Christianity is fully institutionalized within the cultural framework of Europe, there was no way for Islam to supplant it.
Alex Richards
Donor
Definately not a start at all. I tried that in my first TL, and it went down like the Hindenburg.
Charles Martel looses at Tours, and the Muslim commander (forget his name) burns down Paris, with most of the Frankish nobility killed in the fighting. The Frankish Empire breaks into a hundred pieces, never to reunite. Most of France is occupied by the Ummayyads, who, to solidify their holdings in France, expand their control over the Italian Penensula as well, taking Rome. The large-scale Christianization of Central Europe never happens, and it's eventually converted by Islamic traders and Sufi missionaries (much like OTL Indonesia). Muslim control over western Europe means Constantinople falls sometime in the 11th-13th centuries. By the 16th century, there are no major Chrisitian powers left in Europe and its a minority religion almost everywhere.
I'd like to add that Vienna falling to the Ottomans is a bad POD for this-it was very far from their power base in the southern Balkans, trying to hold it would overstretch them even more than in OTL and probably wouldn't work in the long run. It would have had significant effects on European history (the House of Hapsburg is probably not long for this world once they loose Austria), but Muslim Europe isn't one of them.
I'd like to add that Vienna falling to the Ottomans is a bad POD for this-it was very far from their power base in the southern Balkans, trying to hold it would overstretch them even more than in OTL and probably wouldn't work in the long run. It would have had significant effects on European history (the House of Hapsburg is probably not long for this world once they loose Austria), but Muslim Europe isn't one of them.
Latin Europe will be a latin analog of Iran a islamic roman state instead of Romania,Italy,France,Spain and Moldova.
Attila the Hun defeats Aetius, destroys both Roman empires- dies and leaves a loose confederation of tribes that falls victim to plague far worse then IOTL. Muslims invaders then easily defeat them and take over Europe.
Minus Romania, Moldova, and large chunks of Spain and France. The less sudden the Latins absorbed into Muslim world, the smaller the Latin Muslim realm would be.
Well, the Pyrenees and the Alps will still be natural borders, so Islamic Spain, Islamic Italy, and Islamic France would probably still evolve into different cultures like OTL. Christian states might also survive for a long time in more remote areas (I can imagine northern Spain turning into an equivalent of Lebanon-a Christian area protected by mountains and surrounded by Muslims).
Two PoDs.
First - Constantinople should fall in 717. If the Arabs suceeed, the Balkans up to the Danube would be open to Muslim rule. Arabs vs Avars and Sclavenians sounds like an intresting prospect , methinks.
Second PoD: The Ummayads mounted multiple large scale raids - and full scale invasions of Gaul in the early 8th century. The Battle of Tours was just the best known one. If the Franks were in a state of civil-war , along with the Lombards simultaneously , they're likely to go down the same way as the Visigoths . ESPECIALLY if Constantinople is under Muslim rule. Remember , Christanization was quite firmly grounded in Western Europe by 500 or so . There's no reason to think that a 717 conquest of Gaul would end up in a Islamic Western europe by 900 or so . We might see Islam proceeding in two directions - from Gaul , and from Bolgar / Muslim Rus .By 1400 , I doubt there'll be any Pagans left except in Northernmost Europe. I suspect , as per OTL , the Lithuanians would be the last major power to cling on to Paganism , before being Islamized.
There is also no reason to think that eventually , Andalusia might discover the Americas , or a Muslim analog to France or England .
Christanity would probably be a minority religion today , encompassing no more than 5 % of the population . That being said , it may be less divided.
What's more interesting however, is whether the Industrial revolution will take of as per OTL in an Islamic Europe. Given the abundance of Coal in North Western Europe , if the butterflies do not provoke a Song Dynasty Industrial age in China , I suspect Europe will still be the first to undergo an Industrial Revolution. Whether sooner or later , is highly debatable.
First - Constantinople should fall in 717. If the Arabs suceeed, the Balkans up to the Danube would be open to Muslim rule. Arabs vs Avars and Sclavenians sounds like an intresting prospect , methinks.
Second PoD: The Ummayads mounted multiple large scale raids - and full scale invasions of Gaul in the early 8th century. The Battle of Tours was just the best known one. If the Franks were in a state of civil-war , along with the Lombards simultaneously , they're likely to go down the same way as the Visigoths . ESPECIALLY if Constantinople is under Muslim rule. Remember , Christanization was quite firmly grounded in Western Europe by 500 or so . There's no reason to think that a 717 conquest of Gaul would end up in a Islamic Western europe by 900 or so . We might see Islam proceeding in two directions - from Gaul , and from Bolgar / Muslim Rus .By 1400 , I doubt there'll be any Pagans left except in Northernmost Europe. I suspect , as per OTL , the Lithuanians would be the last major power to cling on to Paganism , before being Islamized.
There is also no reason to think that eventually , Andalusia might discover the Americas , or a Muslim analog to France or England .
Christanity would probably be a minority religion today , encompassing no more than 5 % of the population . That being said , it may be less divided.
What's more interesting however, is whether the Industrial revolution will take of as per OTL in an Islamic Europe. Given the abundance of Coal in North Western Europe , if the butterflies do not provoke a Song Dynasty Industrial age in China , I suspect Europe will still be the first to undergo an Industrial Revolution. Whether sooner or later , is highly debatable.