Lack of children is a valid argument. And the dispensation of Pope Julius was in no way an insurmountable impediment. The problem were Katherine and Charles
Catherine of Aragon Had Been Barren?
- Thread starter Kellan Sullivan
- Start date
That is guaranteed. Henry would have likely received his annulment if he had decided to ask it before the Pope was in the hands of Karl V after the sack of Rome.
Good question. Henry would likely take either if Eleanor is still in her early 20s. Much depend from what sister Charles is more willing to offer: Eleanor is the more likely candidate as she can not remarry in Portugal and was once engaged to Henry
You don't think Henry would start considering this in the teens already, when every month goes by and Catherine isn't pregnant? I mean, OTL, between her wedding and the final stillborn daughter in 1518, she spent 59 months of the 113 months of marriage (so far), pregnant (and that's not counting the miscarried daughter in 1510 or the other miscarriages she's interpolated to have suffered). Or, percentage wise, Catherine spent 52% of the time of her first decade of marriage being pregnant. Surely by about 1513/1515 someone is going to pull a Caroline Bonaparte and slip a "Bessie Blount" into Henry's bed to see whether or not Catherine or Henry's the problem?
I would NOT go so far. Also Catherine was pregnant twice so I think Henry would wait her mid30s before starting to worry. And Henry had mistresses, only none of them became pregnant before Bessie. If Henry choose to divorce around 1515 then he would likely be able to get an annulment and remarry to Eleanor in 1516 or 1517
Well, Catherine's dad might also push one his Neapolitan nieces (if only for the reason that a) he had them in his custody in his time; and b) he probably wouldn't want to make it "too easy" for Maximilian to get his granddaughter in). France is the one who doesn't really have anyone "regal enough" or "old enough".
Ferdinand had only one Neapolitan niece (who was the one who he offered for Henry’s dad). Also marrying off Frederick’s girls (who for him are only are the granddaughters of his illegitimate cousin) and specially marrying them so well would be against his own interests so no way. Eleanor by the way is also Ferdinand’s own granddaughter and the King of Spain will die in January 1516, so likely BEFORE Henry’s annulment is finalised.
Here is a family tree for a scenario where Henry remarries to Catherine of Austria after the annulment ( in 1522)
Henry VIII, King of England(b.1491, d.1547) m.Catherine of Austria, Queen of England (b.1507, d.1578)
1)Henry, Prince of Wales, later Henry IX (b.1523, d.1590) m. Anna of Austria, Queen of England(b.1528, d.1590) had issue
2)Elizabeth Tudor(b.1525, d.1525)
3)Edward, Duke of York(b.1527, d.1546) (1)
4)Charles, Duke of Somerset(b.1528, d.1593)
5)Mary Tudor, Queen of Spain(b.1530, d.1600) m. Phillip II of Spain(b.1527, d.1598) had issue
6)Edmund, Duke of Bedford(b.1532, d.1532)
7)John, Duke of Bedford(b.1535, d.1597)
8)Phillip, Duke of Richmond(b.1537, d. 1579)
9)Joanna of England, Queen of Scots(b.1539, d.1610) m. James VI, King of Scots(b.1540, d.1592) had issue (2)
(1) Edward dies of diabetes like Catherine's OTL son Joao Manuel
(2) A surviving eldest son of James V and Marie de Guise
Henry VIII, King of England(b.1491, d.1547) m.Catherine of Austria, Queen of England (b.1507, d.1578)
1)Henry, Prince of Wales, later Henry IX (b.1523, d.1590) m. Anna of Austria, Queen of England(b.1528, d.1590) had issue
2)Elizabeth Tudor(b.1525, d.1525)
3)Edward, Duke of York(b.1527, d.1546) (1)
4)Charles, Duke of Somerset(b.1528, d.1593)
5)Mary Tudor, Queen of Spain(b.1530, d.1600) m. Phillip II of Spain(b.1527, d.1598) had issue
6)Edmund, Duke of Bedford(b.1532, d.1532)
7)John, Duke of Bedford(b.1535, d.1597)
8)Phillip, Duke of Richmond(b.1537, d. 1579)
9)Joanna of England, Queen of Scots(b.1539, d.1610) m. James VI, King of Scots(b.1540, d.1592) had issue (2)
(1) Edward dies of diabetes like Catherine's OTL son Joao Manuel
(2) A surviving eldest son of James V and Marie de Guise
In 1522 Henry would marry Eleanor not Catalina (who is younger, true, but I do not think who Charles would offer her and Henry would be so interested to marry Catherine’s namesake niece when his former fiancé Eleanor is available and neither Karl or Ferdinand have yet children)...
Bedford's also an unlikely title for a son. Both Gloucester or Clarence - despite their connotations - were (IIRC) suggested for Guilford Dudley.
Well, if Henry feel who is too soon for reusing either Bedford work bit in any case both Richmond and Pembroke would be used before any of this titles
Play with the dates a bit/outright kill Charles of Alencon and we might be able to see a marriage to Margaret of Angouleme, tho I don't find it particularly likely, but it's something I'd like to see.
She would be already too old for Henry‘s liking, being six years older than Eleanor.