Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3

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wietze

Claymore said:
Interesting idea, although the Abbot and M108 both had their turrets at the rear to simplify ammunition resupply and crew access - same for most (although not all) western SPGs of the time. I shall have a play in MS Paint... 👍:)
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2 ideas:
1. the sheridan was developed as a lightweight tank, and this howitzer was developed to accompany it, and used the same chassis for easier logistics ), official name Airborne Fire support Vehicle
2. confronted with a gun/rocket system that wasn't very practical, the US gets some abbott turrets from the uk to turn some of the sheridans into howitzers (or the aussies get some sheridans from us for use in nam, and they do the conversion)
 
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Life In Black

The Sheridan OTL was also tested with a short-barreled 105mm cannon:
PZXfvdd.jpg
 
Claymore

Claymore

wietze said:
@Claymore
for the sheridan, how about mating it with the turret of the abott (105mm how)
same weight class, so should be possible, maybe as a slightly lighter alternative to the M108?
Click to expand...

Claymore said:
Interesting idea, although the Abbot and M108 both had their turrets at the rear to simplify ammunition resupply and crew access - same for most (although not all) western SPGs of the time. I shall have a play in MS Paint... 👍:)
Click to expand...

wietze said:
2 ideas:
1. the sheridan was developed as a lightweight tank, and this howitzer was developed to accompany it, and used the same chassis for easier logistics ), official name Airborne Fire support Vehicle
2. confronted with a gun/rocket system that wasn't very practical, the US gets some abbott turrets from the uk to turn some of the sheridans into howitzers (or the aussies get some sheridans from us for use in nam, and they do the conversion)
Click to expand...

Well, I guess it would look something like this...

M552 Gavin AFSV.png
 
Claymore

Claymore

Always being one to consider getting my money‘s worth out of any potential building project, I got to thinking what I might do with a spare M551 Sheridan turret if I were to build the M552 Gavin AFSV. Now, as I said earlier, I already have a spare Tamiya M41 kit sitting in the cupboard - one I picked up on a trip to Hong Kong for next to nothing a few years back. So, staying with the Vietnam era thinking, what might the US/ARVN have considered if they wanted to up-gun the M41? Not saying it would have been God's gift or that it would have worked at all but I present you the M41A5 Lancer - it looks kinda sweet...

M41A5 Lancer.png
 
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Not James Stockdale

Not James Stockdale

Claymore said:
Always being one to consider getting my moneys worth out of any potential building project, I got to thinking what I might do with a spare M551 Sheridan turret if I were to build the M552 Gavin AFSV. Now, as I said earlier, I already have a spare Tamiya M41 kit sitting in the cupboard - one I picked up on a trip to Hong Kong for next to nothing a few years back. So, staying with the Vietnam era thinking, what might the US/ARVN have considered to up gun the M41? Not saying it would have been God's gift or that it would have worked at all but I present you the M41A5 Lancer - it looks kinda sweet...

View attachment 649640
Click to expand...
You could put the Abbot turret on an M44 chassis in place of the fixed superstructure with 155 mm M114 howitzer. You would sacrifice some on the payload but match range and increase effective rate of fire. Adding an independent turret would also give the vehicle more tactical flexibility. Even the M53/M55 based on the M48 chassis had a turret but still had the driving position inside the turret because SPGs aren't really supposed to be turning the turrets around while driving.
 
La Rouge Beret

La Rouge Beret

Claymore said:
Always being one to consider getting my money‘s worth out of any potential building project, I got to thinking what I might do with a spare M551 Sheridan turret if I were to build the M552 Gavin AFSV. Now, as I said earlier, I already have a spare Tamiya M41 kit sitting in the cupboard - one I picked up on a trip to Hong Kong for next to nothing a few years back. So, staying with the Vietnam era thinking, what might the US/ARVN have considered if they wanted to up-gun the M41? Not saying it would have been God's gift or that it would have worked at all but I present you the M41A5 Lancer - it looks kinda sweet...

View attachment 649640
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure you have mocked up that design for me a few years earlier!
 

Life In Black

Claymore said:
Always being one to consider getting my money‘s worth out of any potential building project, I got to thinking what I might do with a spare M551 Sheridan turret if I were to build the M552 Gavin AFSV. Now, as I said earlier, I already have a spare Tamiya M41 kit sitting in the cupboard - one I picked up on a trip to Hong Kong for next to nothing a few years back. So, staying with the Vietnam era thinking, what might the US/ARVN have considered if they wanted to up-gun the M41? Not saying it would have been God's gift or that it would have worked at all but I present you the M41A5 Lancer - it looks kinda sweet...

View attachment 649640
Click to expand...

The original XM551 turret was actually tested on an M41 chassis:
WntsPee.png


All of this information comes from Hunnicutt's book Sheridan.
 

chris N

There was the Privately finance project the Stingray Light Main Battle Tank Which was first begun after the Vietnam War.It would have replaced the M-551 Sheridan.
 

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wietze

Claymore said:
Sadly, no Abbot SPG kit to work from which would necessitate scratch building the turret... So, not impossible but a sh-1-t load of work... But then again, I do like a challenge... 🤔
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abbott kits seems to be expensive
accurate-armour.com

K151 | 103.00 GBP

The FV433 ABBOT was the mainstay of the Royal Artillery (Field Artillery) for many years, and is based on the British FV432 series of vehicles, sharing the Rolls-Royce K60 Engine. This 17 ton vehicle was armed with the Royal Ordnance 105mm gun. This superbly detailed 1/35th scale self assembly...
accurate-armour.com accurate-armour.com
but the photos could be helpful with scratchbuilding.
since ammo would needed to be toploaded instead of of through the chassis rear door, maybe the turret of this version would incorporate some sort of hatch at the rear of the turret to make this process easier?
 
Claymore

Claymore

wietze said:
abbott kits seems to be expensive
accurate-armour.com

K151 | 103.00 GBP

The FV433 ABBOT was the mainstay of the Royal Artillery (Field Artillery) for many years, and is based on the British FV432 series of vehicles, sharing the Rolls-Royce K60 Engine. This 17 ton vehicle was armed with the Royal Ordnance 105mm gun. This superbly detailed 1/35th scale self assembly...
accurate-armour.com accurate-armour.com
but the photos could be helpful with scratchbuilding.
since ammo would needed to be toploaded instead of of through the chassis rear door, maybe the turret of this version would incorporate some sort of hatch at the rear of the turret to make this process easier?
Click to expand...

Yup, as with most of their stuff, Accurate Armour‘s resin kit of the Abbot is so expensive that I refuse to even consider it.

Thanks, these pics will indeed be helpful, if I decide to go ahead with the scratch build. I also agree that a few modifications would be needed to the turret design to aid ammunition loading. 👍
 

chris N

I bought the 3D printed 1/48 scale model of the Abbot from Butler's Printed Models in the UK and I thought it was priced high but I could get nearly 3 of them for the price of the 1/35 Accurate Armour resin kit. Shipping charges these days are often as high as the cost of the models.
 
Claymore

Claymore

chris N said:
I bought the 3D printed 1/48 scale model of the Abbot from Butler's Printed Models in the UK and I thought it was priced high but I could get nearly 3 of them for the price of the 1/35 Accurate Armour resin kit. Shipping charges these days are often as high as the cost of the models.
Click to expand...

I hear you. As far as I am concerned, they have priced themselves out of the market even without the shipping costs. Pity though, as they make some really interesting kits... 🙁
 
Claymore

Claymore

So, in using up some of my unspent Birthday money, I have today placed an order for a Leopard 2A4 and a M551 Sheridan with those fine Spue Brothers chaps of Liberty, Missourah. That will give me the bits for 2 more projects and leave me with the Sheridan hull to perhaps do the Abbot/FSV conversion later. 👍
 
La Rouge Beret

La Rouge Beret

Claymore said:
So, in using up some of my unspent Birthday money, I have today placed an order for a Leopard 2A4 and a M551 Sheridan with those fine Spue Brothers chaps of Liberty, Missourah. That will give me the bits for 2 more projects and leave me with the Sheridan hull to perhaps do the Abbot/FSV conversion later. 👍
Click to expand...
I'm just amazed a Scotsman opened his wallet ;) .
 
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