They could be atleast as fast as modern destroyers
No Ofcourse not more accurate but atleast can launch more torpedoes from multiple axes
probably harder to beat with countermeasures
the older 60s gunboats of PLAN can be upgraded to fit TT or just new engines maybe ?
The PLA will also be desiring something to ensure they can take out enemy warships via mission kill at minimum. Torpedoes are a huge risk to carry since there's always the risk of then being shot and exploding.
Missiles you can avoid the risk of getting shot by a 40mm cannon and lighting up just as you're about to launch
More torpedoes? No. Missiles or torpedoes small coastal boats carry two; with smaller missiles like Gabriel missiles win out over torpedoes in terms of numbers.
Multiple axes? Any multi-axis attack with torpedoes can be done with missiles.
Harder to beat with countermeasures, yes, but easier to just straight-up evade. “As fast as a modern destroyer” is slooooooow.
Face it, torpedoes just aren’t competing directly with missiles in anti ship roles.
Did any other nations make an "S-boat" equivalent in the 1930's (in the 70-tonne to 100-tonne range)? I've been searching through the different smaller navies like Finland, Holland, Denmark, and I haven't really seen anything comparable (with the British Vospers and BPB's being significantly smaller vessels). And from what I've read the Italian boats were only suitable for the Med.
Driftless
Donor
FWIW, Italian MAS boats were supposedly used on Lake Ladoga during the siege of Leningrad - but that's still comparatively calm waters.
What would a carrier conversion of Brazilian Battleship Riachuelo look like?
For context, imagine that WW1 starts a year later for reasons so Riachuelo has actually been started and worked on for some time, the two Ottoman dreadnoughts have been delivered (thought they have a third one under construction), Latorre and Cochrane (Canada and Eagle, respectively) would also be further along.
Is there potential for the Brazilian ship to be converted to a carrier ala Eagle? While both Chilean ships serve in the Royal Navy as battleships for some time. (I was thinking Fatih Sultan Mehmed (Erin/Reshadiye's sister) is simply cancelled and scrapped, but I guess it is possible she might get commissioned as either a carrier or battleship for the Royal Navy as well)
For context, imagine that WW1 starts a year later for reasons so Riachuelo has actually been started and worked on for some time, the two Ottoman dreadnoughts have been delivered (thought they have a third one under construction), Latorre and Cochrane (Canada and Eagle, respectively) would also be further along.
Is there potential for the Brazilian ship to be converted to a carrier ala Eagle? While both Chilean ships serve in the Royal Navy as battleships for some time. (I was thinking Fatih Sultan Mehmed (Erin/Reshadiye's sister) is simply cancelled and scrapped, but I guess it is possible she might get commissioned as either a carrier or battleship for the Royal Navy as well)
USS Iowa
Sketchup done by @Migrant_Coconut for Reach For the Skies
Iowa's home timeline
Completed just in time for the War of 1897, Iowa (BB-3) was a one-off ship that gave her name to an entire generation of battleships. At first glance, it bore some resemblance to SMS Brandenburg, with 6 big guns as well as its 6 8" guns, but unlike the German ship, one 12" and 1 8" turret were superimposed over the other 12" turrets, and all of the 12" guns were the same length. She was expensive, and the navy had to give up the third "Indiana" class in budget negotiations, and came close to losing an armored cruiser.
The oil fired boilers were another innovation, but unlike the guns, were not visible to the general public. The raw firepower and 17 knot speed speed elicited some concern from the Royal Navy, and the British public, but it was portrayed publicly as one expensive experimental ship, and of no threat to Britania ruling the waves. In the halls of the men who design and build the ships, however, there was mild consternation. That mild consternation turned to near panic when the ship first engaged an enemy.
The firepower was what everyone saw, and the fire control system was nicely hidden, budget-wise, in Skywatch's programs, so no one knew about the new gadgets that were the heart of the ship. It incorporated the fruits of "Skywatch," the program developed to discover threatening asteroids and assess their orbits. Using advanced gyroscopic systems to stabilize the main and secondary guns, and a simplified version of the sophisticated analytikí michaní used for computing orbits, Iowa could hit with reasonable accuracy at ranges up to 5 miles with both the 12" and 8" guns. Under good conditions, hits could be achieved at ranges reported up to 8 miles.
In the first naval battle in the war of 1897, Iowa engaged at a range of 5 miles, the 12" guns firing at 1 target and the 8" guns at another, as the difficulty of distinguishing between 8 and 12" shell splashes had been discovered in exercises. One enemy battleship was crippled, and later forced to strike, and an armored cruiser blew up and sunk from plunging fire from the secondary turrets.
One ship blown up at what could be seen as a ridiculous range could be attributed to a crack crew and good luck, but Iowa shifted targets, sinking two more armored cruisers before the enemy forces rang up full speed and retreated. None of the other American ships even opened fire. The rapid destruction of four enemy warships at unheard-of ranges by unknown means changed the paradigm of naval warfare.
As an odd appendix to the history of Iowas, the two esoteric Kearsage class ships and the two Illinois class battleships were already under construction. The Kearsage class was completed as designed, and USS Illinois was as well, both effectively obsolete before they were completed. Alabama was modified on the ways to replace the twin 8" guns with single 13" guns. None of the four were entirely satisfactory, and Maine was a clean sheet of paper design--but her specs are a tale for another day.
USS Iowa 1895, American Semi-dreadnought laid down 1895 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,699 t light; 13,385 t standard; 13,980 t normal; 14,455 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
391.00 ft / 390.00 ft x 74.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
119.18 m / 118.87 m x 22.56 m x 7.47 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 7,040 lbs / 3,193 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 136.48 ft / 41.60 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 12.5" / 318 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
- Armour deck: 2.10" / 53 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,496 ihp / 8,576 Kw = 17.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,070 tons
Complement:
642 - 835
Cost:
£1.396 million / $5.583 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 880 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 5,170 tons, 37.0 %
- Belts: 2,392 tons, 17.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,761 tons, 12.6 %
- Armour Deck: 892 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,515 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,125 tons, 36.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,280 tons, 9.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,249 lbs / 6,463 Kg = 16.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.692
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.87 ft / 6.36 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.37 ft / 4.38 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.0 %
Waterplane Area: 22,967 Square feet or 2,134 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.02
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I had to put a "1905" engine in to account for some of the changes in the timeline, as Vertical Triple Expansion engines are better than in OTL, and my version of Springsharp didn't allow them, or oil firing, with 1985 engines.
Sketchup done by @Migrant_Coconut for Reach For the Skies
Iowa's home timeline
Completed just in time for the War of 1897, Iowa (BB-3) was a one-off ship that gave her name to an entire generation of battleships. At first glance, it bore some resemblance to SMS Brandenburg, with 6 big guns as well as its 6 8" guns, but unlike the German ship, one 12" and 1 8" turret were superimposed over the other 12" turrets, and all of the 12" guns were the same length. She was expensive, and the navy had to give up the third "Indiana" class in budget negotiations, and came close to losing an armored cruiser.
The oil fired boilers were another innovation, but unlike the guns, were not visible to the general public. The raw firepower and 17 knot speed speed elicited some concern from the Royal Navy, and the British public, but it was portrayed publicly as one expensive experimental ship, and of no threat to Britania ruling the waves. In the halls of the men who design and build the ships, however, there was mild consternation. That mild consternation turned to near panic when the ship first engaged an enemy.
The firepower was what everyone saw, and the fire control system was nicely hidden, budget-wise, in Skywatch's programs, so no one knew about the new gadgets that were the heart of the ship. It incorporated the fruits of "Skywatch," the program developed to discover threatening asteroids and assess their orbits. Using advanced gyroscopic systems to stabilize the main and secondary guns, and a simplified version of the sophisticated analytikí michaní used for computing orbits, Iowa could hit with reasonable accuracy at ranges up to 5 miles with both the 12" and 8" guns. Under good conditions, hits could be achieved at ranges reported up to 8 miles.
In the first naval battle in the war of 1897, Iowa engaged at a range of 5 miles, the 12" guns firing at 1 target and the 8" guns at another, as the difficulty of distinguishing between 8 and 12" shell splashes had been discovered in exercises. One enemy battleship was crippled, and later forced to strike, and an armored cruiser blew up and sunk from plunging fire from the secondary turrets.
One ship blown up at what could be seen as a ridiculous range could be attributed to a crack crew and good luck, but Iowa shifted targets, sinking two more armored cruisers before the enemy forces rang up full speed and retreated. None of the other American ships even opened fire. The rapid destruction of four enemy warships at unheard-of ranges by unknown means changed the paradigm of naval warfare.
As an odd appendix to the history of Iowas, the two esoteric Kearsage class ships and the two Illinois class battleships were already under construction. The Kearsage class was completed as designed, and USS Illinois was as well, both effectively obsolete before they were completed. Alabama was modified on the ways to replace the twin 8" guns with single 13" guns. None of the four were entirely satisfactory, and Maine was a clean sheet of paper design--but her specs are a tale for another day.
USS Iowa 1895, American Semi-dreadnought laid down 1895 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,699 t light; 13,385 t standard; 13,980 t normal; 14,455 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
391.00 ft / 390.00 ft x 74.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
119.18 m / 118.87 m x 22.56 m x 7.47 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 7,040 lbs / 3,193 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 136.48 ft / 41.60 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 12.5" / 318 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
- Armour deck: 2.10" / 53 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,496 ihp / 8,576 Kw = 17.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,070 tons
Complement:
642 - 835
Cost:
£1.396 million / $5.583 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 880 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 5,170 tons, 37.0 %
- Belts: 2,392 tons, 17.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,761 tons, 12.6 %
- Armour Deck: 892 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,515 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,125 tons, 36.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,280 tons, 9.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,249 lbs / 6,463 Kg = 16.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.692
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.87 ft / 6.36 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.37 ft / 4.38 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.0 %
Waterplane Area: 22,967 Square feet or 2,134 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.02
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I had to put a "1905" engine in to account for some of the changes in the timeline, as Vertical Triple Expansion engines are better than in OTL, and my version of Springsharp didn't allow them, or oil firing, with 1985 engines.
So it's basically a slow dreadnaught in 1897? Cool. It would be enjoyable to see the reactions of all the other major navies in the world, namely the Royal Navy and the Kaiserliche Marine.USS Iowa
Sketchup done by @Migrant_Coconut for Reach For the Skies
Iowa's home timeline
Completed just in time for the War of 1897, Iowa (BB-3) was a one-off ship that gave her name to an entire generation of battleships. At first glance, it bore some resemblance to SMS Brandenburg, with 6 big guns as well as its 6 8" guns, but unlike the German ship, one 12" and 1 8" turret were superimposed over the other 12" turrets, and all of the 12" guns were the same length. She was expensive, and the navy had to give up the third "Indiana" class in budget negotiations, and came close to losing an armored cruiser.
The oil fired boilers were another innovation, but unlike the guns, were not visible to the general public. The raw firepower and 17 knot speed speed elicited some concern from the Royal Navy, and the British public, but it was portrayed publicly as one expensive experimental ship, and of no threat to Britania ruling the waves. In the halls of the men who design and build the ships, however, there was mild consternation. That mild consternation turned to near panic when the ship first engaged an enemy.
The firepower was what everyone saw, and the fire control system was nicely hidden, budget-wise, in Skywatch's programs, so no one knew about the new gadgets that were the heart of the ship. It incorporated the fruits of "Skywatch," the program developed to discover threatening asteroids and assess their orbits. Using advanced gyroscopic systems to stabilize the main and secondary guns, and a simplified version of the sophisticated analytikí michaní used for computing orbits, Iowa could hit with reasonable accuracy at ranges up to 5 miles with both the 12" and 8" guns. Under good conditions, hits could be achieved at ranges reported up to 8 miles.
In the first naval battle in the war of 1897, Iowa engaged at a range of 5 miles, the 12" guns firing at 1 target and the 8" guns at another, as the difficulty of distinguishing between 8 and 12" shell splashes had been discovered in exercises. One enemy battleship was crippled, and later forced to strike, and an armored cruiser blew up and sunk from plunging fire from the secondary turrets.
One ship blown up at what could be seen as a ridiculous range could be attributed to a crack crew and good luck, but Iowa shifted targets, sinking two more armored cruisers before the enemy forces rang up full speed and retreated. None of the other American ships even opened fire. The rapid destruction of four enemy warships at unheard-of ranges by unknown means changed the paradigm of naval warfare.
As an odd appendix to the history of Iowas, the two esoteric Kearsage class ships and the two Illinois class battleships were already under construction. The Kearsage class was completed as designed, and USS Illinois was as well, both effectively obsolete before they were completed. Alabama was modified on the ways to replace the twin 8" guns with single 13" guns. None of the four were entirely satisfactory, and Maine was a clean sheet of paper design--but her specs are a tale for another day.
USS Iowa 1895, American Semi-dreadnought laid down 1895 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,699 t light; 13,385 t standard; 13,980 t normal; 14,455 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
391.00 ft / 390.00 ft x 74.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
119.18 m / 118.87 m x 22.56 m x 7.47 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1895 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 7,040 lbs / 3,193 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 136.48 ft / 41.60 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 12.5" / 318 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
- Armour deck: 2.10" / 53 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,496 ihp / 8,576 Kw = 17.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,070 tons
Complement:
642 - 835
Cost:
£1.396 million / $5.583 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 880 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 5,170 tons, 37.0 %
- Belts: 2,392 tons, 17.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,761 tons, 12.6 %
- Armour Deck: 892 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,515 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,125 tons, 36.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,280 tons, 9.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,249 lbs / 6,463 Kg = 16.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.692
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.87 ft / 6.36 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.37 ft / 4.38 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.0 %
Waterplane Area: 22,967 Square feet or 2,134 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.02
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I had to put a "1905" engine in to account for some of the changes in the timeline, as Vertical Triple Expansion engines are better than in OTL, and my version of Springsharp didn't allow them, or oil firing, with 1985 engines.
The British King Edward VII class (the wobbly eight) and Lord Nelson Class will have their 9.2" secondary battery replaced by 12" guns in single mounts and at least have oil sprayers in the coal fed boilers. The Lord Nelsons may have all oil fired boilers and turbines. Dreadnought may appear to be the same as otl but would have oil fired boilers and may have a couple of knots extra speed.
German ships will likely continue to be coal fired.
Last edited:
When the timeline gets that far, I'll share. Reach For the Skies is not a naval timeline, but an 1876 starting space timeline.
On the surface, she's a slow semi dreadnought--though in 1897, 17 knots is nothing to sneeze at. At first glance, another Brandenburg, really.
Oil firing gives her extreme range; at cruising speed, she can get from he Nicaragua Canal to Honolulu without refueling, though that is pushing the edge. San Diego to Hawai'i is easy. There's all the other benefits of oil fuel as well, including easy refueling. (Politically, the oil has a major advantage as well. She can't refuel from prizes or in many foreign ports. Isolationists like that, since she can't be used for some crazy foreign adventures, but is deadly where the navy belongs.)
The real surprise is the sophisticated fire control. We're looking at fire control equivalent to Royal Navy end of World War I fire control.
The armament will be known when the ship is laid down, or soon after at the latest. Oil fuel will be discussed as well; by this time, it's been proven in American service. The fire control will be a total shock. The Royal Navy will be terrified of ships that hit reliably at those ranges. So will everyone else.
NOT having that technology is an existential threat to Britain.
The Formidables will likely be the Royal Navy's last pre-Iowas, though the next class won't have the fire control secret just yet. The British and Germans lack reliable access to abundant supplies of oil...
On the surface, she's a slow semi dreadnought--though in 1897, 17 knots is nothing to sneeze at. At first glance, another Brandenburg, really.
Oil firing gives her extreme range; at cruising speed, she can get from he Nicaragua Canal to Honolulu without refueling, though that is pushing the edge. San Diego to Hawai'i is easy. There's all the other benefits of oil fuel as well, including easy refueling. (Politically, the oil has a major advantage as well. She can't refuel from prizes or in many foreign ports. Isolationists like that, since she can't be used for some crazy foreign adventures, but is deadly where the navy belongs.)
The real surprise is the sophisticated fire control. We're looking at fire control equivalent to Royal Navy end of World War I fire control.
The armament will be known when the ship is laid down, or soon after at the latest. Oil fuel will be discussed as well; by this time, it's been proven in American service. The fire control will be a total shock. The Royal Navy will be terrified of ships that hit reliably at those ranges. So will everyone else.
NOT having that technology is an existential threat to Britain.
The Formidables will likely be the Royal Navy's last pre-Iowas, though the next class won't have the fire control secret just yet. The British and Germans lack reliable access to abundant supplies of oil...
True, but they were also very concerned at the time about the security of supply - following the experience of submarine warfare during the First World War (and naval interdiction and blockades in general from centuries of fighting the French), resources at the far end of shipping routes weren't regarded as dependable, the only 'secure' fuel supply was coal as that was the only hydrocarbon within the British Isles that people knew about at the time. I imagine that even if they'd known about the North Sea fields, a) they couldn't have extracted it with Edwardian technology, and b) it would still have been thought of as insecure thanks to how close German naval bases are to the whole of the North Sea. The RN also didn't have a supply network set up for oil yet IIRC, it takes a deliberate investment of both cash and time to set up oil bunkering at the depots spread around the world, most were only set up for coal IIRC.
What would a armed modern post ww2 whaling ship look like ? Many countries esp Norway ussr and japan can use them to deter others from whaling in their waters
I’m thinking size of a cargo ship and with the armament of a ww2 destroyer escort , a 4 “ inch gun and half dozen automatic cannons or flak guns ?
I’m thinking size of a cargo ship and with the armament of a ww2 destroyer escort , a 4 “ inch gun and half dozen automatic cannons or flak guns ?
Why would anyone want to go this route? I think it would just be simpler and cheaper to build an OPV or small corvette than arming a whaling ship. This way you have a multi-use ship instead of one that is mono-tasked.
True or you get a multipurpose ship that can earn its keep even during peacetime ( which will be the vast majority of its service yrs) and have an intimidating presence
Britain had been extracting shale oil from British fields since the 1850's.
I would like the naval experts and connoisseurs here to please comment on this
Given how rare sub vs sub fights were in ww1 and ww2 what are the chances of sub on sub fights in the post ww2 era esp if a hypothetical NATO vs WP conflict
Boomers vs hunter killer is more likely but were other sub types expected to engage in such fights or were surface ships their most likely targets and just evade and escape enemy subs ?
Given how rare sub vs sub fights were in ww1 and ww2 what are the chances of sub on sub fights in the post ww2 era esp if a hypothetical NATO vs WP conflict
Boomers vs hunter killer is more likely but were other sub types expected to engage in such fights or were surface ships their most likely targets and just evade and escape enemy subs ?
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Submarines were absolutely expected to fight other submarines. US carrier battle groups had an SSN riding shotgun for a reason: that SSN is their single best ASW asset.