Eternity, Hood,
She is based on the 1921 K3-F3 series of battle cruiser designs but is essentially a K3 with G3 machinery and Nelson's (O3 from the 1921 L3-O3 series of battleship designs ) armament. I call the design 'E3' and if you are interested there is an essay here on how I came to finalise it. Revised British warship designs 1919-33 It was done before Springsharp was a thing.
Here's another pic for you.
She is based on the 1921 K3-F3 series of battle cruiser designs but is essentially a K3 with G3 machinery and Nelson's (O3 from the 1921 L3-O3 series of battleship designs ) armament. I call the design 'E3' and if you are interested there is an essay here on how I came to finalise it. Revised British warship designs 1919-33 It was done before Springsharp was a thing.
Here's another pic for you.
Imagine for a minute that somehow after the Treaty of Lausanne Turkey not only keeps Yavuz/Goeben but also somehow gets Agincourt/Sultan Osman-ı-Evvel/Rio de Jenario and Erin/Reshadiye. (Ignore how and why, let it be ASB)
I am quite certain that Turkey could not operate/maintain all three ships. Yavuz itself was not the most well maintained ship in real history. My question is which of three would be the best maintained? Which one would the Turkish navy try to hold onto the most? If the one that is kept in the best shape is Agincourt perhaps removing some of the turrets to add other things could be a part of a later refit? Would it be possible to perhaps keep one of them as a museum (unlikely, I know. Let a man dream for a bit)?
Also possible names for Agincourt and Erin? Reshadiye would be very controversial, while if simplified (to Osman or Osmaniye, I suppose) Sultan Osman-ı-Evvel could work. I like the thought that they might get called Hürriyet and Cumhuriyet (Freedom/Liberty and Republic) or perhaps Anadolu and Trakya. Maybe after Atatürk's death renaming one after him would be possible.
I am quite certain that Turkey could not operate/maintain all three ships. Yavuz itself was not the most well maintained ship in real history. My question is which of three would be the best maintained? Which one would the Turkish navy try to hold onto the most? If the one that is kept in the best shape is Agincourt perhaps removing some of the turrets to add other things could be a part of a later refit? Would it be possible to perhaps keep one of them as a museum (unlikely, I know. Let a man dream for a bit)?
Also possible names for Agincourt and Erin? Reshadiye would be very controversial, while if simplified (to Osman or Osmaniye, I suppose) Sultan Osman-ı-Evvel could work. I like the thought that they might get called Hürriyet and Cumhuriyet (Freedom/Liberty and Republic) or perhaps Anadolu and Trakya. Maybe after Atatürk's death renaming one after him would be possible.
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Ok, nice idea but you are probably correct. Manpower and cost would be crippling for all three.
Assuming she has
SMS Goeben
HMS Agincourt
HMS Erin
To play around with, I imagine the Turkish keeping HMS Erin.
Why?
A few reasons.
1) 13.5" guns over the 11.1" of Goeben and the 12" of Agincourt. The German 11.1" and Brit 12" were about equal I believe, but the 13.5" of Erin is superior to both.
2) Armour. Erin is better armoured than Agincourt and is comparable to Goeben.
3) Age. Erin commissioned in late 1914. Similar age to Agincourt but Goeben commissioned in 1912, so she is the newest ship.
4) Damage. True Agincourt and Erin both emerged from WWI unscathed, but Goeben suffered pretty bad mine damage at the end of the war. Repair costs for her were horrible OTL and didn't get done to the mid-late 1920's I believe. No way the Turks would hang on to her with 2x undamaged ships around.
So to summarise.
Goeben first to go due to damage. This leaves Erin and Agincourt. What do you then keep in a world of 15" and 16" guns? The 12" armed ship or the 13.5" armed ship?
Simple answer: The 13.5" gunned ship, hence Erin. Although they make hang on to Agincourt as a training ship / spares ship. Both were British built so there would be some equipment similarities and potentially one could be stripped to maintain the other to a limited degree.
Due to her length Agincourt might be considered for conversion into an Aircraft Carrier by Britain as an alternative to Eagle.
Not so much as the hull ws just a lottle more than 204 m., or 671 ft, compared to Eagle with 667 ft. A much more atractive alternative would have been an earlier conversion of "Fisher's Foly's"; HMS Glorious and Courageous following the lines of their already converted near sister HMS Furious, leaving tonnage free for a more purpose designed aircraft carrier early on. (Even a conversion of the equally debatable value of HMS Renown and Repulse was an option still. This would allow a possible additional pair of Nelson's perhaps.)
Pretty crazy. They would have been 18 - 21kt ships tops. Really a CV needs to be faster and NOT a coal burner. Question is: Has anybody realized that in 1918/1919.
Driftless
Donor
I understood some of their more modern ships were in the 24 to 27 knot range - coal burners, to be sure. Some also had some size to them, so might have made a more useful first carrier for the French?
Can't be much worse than Conte Rosso (the Italian Ocean Liner under construction that was finished as HMS Argus.
Probably the same utility too.
If torpedo bombers hadn't been overlooked in WW1 (They performed well at Gallipoli and the German effort was ruined by the capture of its creator after his plane was shot down), could it have encouraged earlier carriers?
McPherson
Banned
USS Imperator.
| Name: | SS Imperator |
| Owner: | Hamburg - Amerika Linie |
| Port of registry: | Hamburg |
| Builder: | |
| Laid down: | 1910 |
| Launched: | 23 May 1912 |
| Christened: | 24 May 1913 |
| Completed: | June 1913 at Hamburg, Germany |
| Maiden voyage: | 11 June 1913, Cuxhaven to New York Via Southampton |
| Fate: | Used as a troop transport for the United States at the end of World War I. The USS Imperator aided along with her sister ship Vaterland now the United States Ship Leviathan. The ships ferried troops back to the States from Brest, France. After the war, Imperator was purchased and handed over to the Cunard Line, and renamed as RMS Berengaria. |
| United States | |
|---|---|
| Name: | USS Imperator |
| Acquired: | by the Navy 5 May 1919 at Brest, France |
| Commissioned: | 5 May 1919 USS Imperator at Brest, France |
| Decommissioned: | 24 November 1919 at New York City |
| Identification: | ID-4080 |
| Fate: | Ceeded to the Cunard Line as a war prize and renamed Berengaria |
What makes her desirable as an AIRCRAFT CARRIER?
| General characteristics | |
|---|---|
| Class and type: | Imperator-class ocean liner |
| Tonnage: | 52,117 GRT |
| Displacement: | 53,000 GRT |
| Length: | 906 ft (276 m) |
| Beam: | 98 ft 3 in (29.95 m) |
| Draught: | 35 ft 2 in (10.72 m) |
| Decks: | 11 |
| Installed power: | Steam generated at 265 psi by 46 watertube boilers of Vulcan Yarrow design, originally coal burning, later converted to oil fired in 1921. |
| Propulsion: | 4 steam turbines AEG-Vulcan / Parsons direct drive on four shafts, total of 60,000 shp (45,000 kW) |
| Speed: | 24 kn (44 km/h; 28 mph) max |
| Capacity: |
|
| Crew: | 1,180 |
Sure like that SPEED RUN capability in 1914 onward. 280 meter by 30 meter flight deck, High freeboard, lots of room for a hanger deck after a razee five decks down and you can run the fire room piping outboard!
All of that data and the photo is from Wiki.
Just thinking that those three behemoths could have been buzzed-cut and Bird-farmed as "experimentals", just fructifies me. Would need Skippy the ASB to whisper to ADM Moffett; "Look at those future fleet carriers, Do you really want to waste time on the USS Jupiter?
I wish the UK had build the Malta class flat tops and the Americans the US United States or even for the UK CVA01 but alas it was not to be.
The Americans managed to balls it up nicely with the Langley lash up.
Richard Freude, a German who on May 1st, 1917 was shot down by the SS Gena.
The British leader was Murray Sueter. Sorry for the late reply, forgot which book it was in!
Source: Death of the Battleship, page 65
Some of the most poorly built ships afloat.USS Imperator.
Let's see her in USN Service as a transport?
Name: SS Imperator Owner: Hamburg - Amerika Linie Port of registry: Hamburg Builder: Laid down: 1910 Launched: 23 May 1912 Christened: 24 May 1913 Completed: June 1913 at Hamburg, Germany Maiden voyage: 11 June 1913, Cuxhaven to New York Via Southampton Fate: Used as a troop transport for the United States at the end of World War I. The USS Imperator aided along with her sister ship Vaterland now the United States Ship Leviathan. The ships ferried troops back to the States from Brest, France. After the war, Imperator was purchased and handed over to the Cunard Line, and renamed as RMS Berengaria.
United States Name: USS Imperator Acquired: by the Navy 5 May 1919 at Brest, France Commissioned: 5 May 1919 USS Imperator at Brest, France Decommissioned: 24 November 1919 at New York City Identification: ID-4080 Fate: Ceeded to the Cunard Line as a war prize and renamed Berengaria
What makes her desirable as an AIRCRAFT CARRIER?
General characteristics Class and type: Imperator-class ocean liner Tonnage: 52,117 GRT Displacement: 53,000 GRT Length: 906 ft (276 m) Beam: 98 ft 3 in (29.95 m) Draught: 35 ft 2 in (10.72 m) Decks: 11 Installed power: Steam generated at 265 psi by 46 watertube boilers of Vulcan Yarrow design, originally coal burning, later converted to oil fired in 1921. Propulsion: 4 steam turbines AEG-Vulcan / Parsons direct drive on four shafts, total of 60,000 shp (45,000 kW) Speed: 24 kn (44 km/h; 28 mph) max Capacity:
- 4,234 passengers:
- 908 first class
- 592 second class
- 962 third class
- 1,772 steerage
Crew: 1,180
Sure like that SPEED RUN capability in 1914 onward. 280 meter by 30 meter flight deck, High freeboard, lots of room for a hanger deck after a razee five decks down and you can run the fire room piping outboard!
All of that data and the photo is from Wiki.
Just thinking that those three behemoths could have been buzzed-cut and Bird-farmed as "experimentals", just fructifies me. Would need Skippy the ASB to whisper to ADM Moffett; "Look at those future fleet carriers, Do you really want to waste time on the USS Jupiter?
Ballin built a ship around a hotel rather than the other way around. Arguably much of their more serious issues would be solved by cutting the superstructure (Always a great idea to put several tons of marble high up in a ship, good reason she was nicknamed limperator/listerator and needed a few thousand tons of concrete ballast to even her out, rolled badly even after that)
In something that could potentially be an advantage, they also had uptakes split around the sides of the ship so as not to interrupt the larger spaces on the ship. I recall they had structural issues aplenty, but possibly less work when hacking out a hanger
24 knots is also a liberal estimate, White Star, Cunard and American lines had Majestic (ex bismarck), Berengaria (ex imperator) and Leviathan (ex Vaterland) and all three called theirs the biggest and fastest afloat. Now, all that aside, Leviathan never made a single cent in service and was probably a somewhat better designed ship compared to her older sister, so a role where she is of any actual use other than dickwaving would be quite good imo. They've certainly the length, cut down a lot of the topweight you might get an extra few knots to boot.