Alexandrian China
- Thread starter WilyBadger
- Start date
Hapsburg
Banned
That's really the only way I can see it, him being an agent of the Persian Empire, and taking power by conquering the warring states on by one, and claiming the Mandate of Heaven.Keenir said:
Otherwise, it'd be him after his whole "w00t, I conqx0red the P3rsianz!1!!" thing, and his army'd get fucked over. Even on the march, they'd have to go across massive peaks, freezing steppes, burning deserts, and of course, through India, meaning thick and humid rain forests and endless assaults by native tribesmen and disease-carrying mosquitoes. That would take down large portions of his army. What he'd get to China with would be barely enough to win a skirmish.
And, IIRC, the Chinese around this time had developed repeating crossbows.
Oh, yeah, that's gonna hurt, especially if the warring states decide to unite against a common front. Even if he managed to get safe passage through India, and somehow managed to survive the elements, he'd be screwed.
Flocculencio
Donor
Hapsburg said:
Umm...just need to correct some factual errors here.
In India you don't get thick rainforest outside Kerala and parts of Tamil Nadu as well as the swampy Ganges Delta.
Native tribesmen? Try large, organised states.
Hapsburg
Banned
Eh, close enough. There's still going to be some kinda of forests, and there's bound to be problems involving mosquitoes come monsoon season, if any. Even then, there's going to be major problems.Flocculencio said:
Besides those. Damn, ever heard of "countryside" or "wilderness"?
Shope
Banned
Sun Tzu was doing his stuff at the same time. A great battle pitting Alexander against Sun Tzu would be cool. From the little I've read about both men, they had very similar military philosophies.
I'd put my money on Sun Tzu, though--just because I like the "Emperor's Concubines" story.
I'd put my money on Sun Tzu, though--just because I like the "Emperor's Concubines" story.
Shope said:
Goodness! Sun Tzu vs Alexander... now THERE'S a story hook... what was the Chinese military like back then, though? In a straight battle, what would the relative strengths be for the Macedonians vs the Chinese?
Shope said:
Goodness! Sun Tzu vs Alexander... now THERE'S a story hook... what was the Chinese military like back then, though? In a straight battle, what would the relative strengths be for the Macedonians vs the Chinese?
NFR said:
Silly me here, what's the difference between Hellenistic and Hellenic? It's all Greek to me...
Shope
Banned
Sun Tzu v. Alexander
The Chinese were using composite long bows at that time, I think. I'm not sure if the Persians had them--I'm pretty sure they had compound short bows. The range of compound long bows might rip the Macedonians to shreds.
There's also the numbers game. In the Art of War, Sun Tzu uses really huge numbers when speaking of troops. Tzu would definitely leave Alexander and escape route though, because, "an enemy with nowhere to retreat will fight to the death."
The Chinese were using composite long bows at that time, I think. I'm not sure if the Persians had them--I'm pretty sure they had compound short bows. The range of compound long bows might rip the Macedonians to shreds.
There's also the numbers game. In the Art of War, Sun Tzu uses really huge numbers when speaking of troops. Tzu would definitely leave Alexander and escape route though, because, "an enemy with nowhere to retreat will fight to the death."
I like your title there... Sun Tzu v Alexander... sounds like something for the People's Court.
*insert theme music here*
ANNOUNCER: In today's case, Sun Tzu is filing a suit against Alexander of Macedon. The basis of the suit is that Alexander's dog has been digging in Sun Tzu's lawn and has caused over $1000 in damage. He's suing for that ammount. Let's go to the courtroom!
*picture of courtroom in flames with armies fighting*
*insert theme music here*
ANNOUNCER: In today's case, Sun Tzu is filing a suit against Alexander of Macedon. The basis of the suit is that Alexander's dog has been digging in Sun Tzu's lawn and has caused over $1000 in damage. He's suing for that ammount. Let's go to the courtroom!
*picture of courtroom in flames with armies fighting*
WilyBadger said:
Hellenic is Greek, Hellenistic is Greek culture over non-Greek peoples most often refers to the conquest of Alexander.
Thus it is obvious how China cannot possibly have been Hellenic (that would involve clearing out China and populating it with Greeks, a prospect which made the current unlikely one seem plausible in comparison), while it might in theory have bee Hellenistic if what described somehow came to pass.
Flocculencio
Donor
Hapsburg said:
Granted, but an army that can defeat the large organised states of the Ganges valley isn't going to have much problem with tribesmen or bandits.
"Great Chief- foreigners approach"
"Exellent- we'll strike down any who invade our territory! How many?"
"Twenty thousand."
"Ah."
Hendryk
Banned
Assuming the daunting logistical obstacles can be overcome, and Alexander manages to hold his army together throughout the trek to China, if he arrives from the West the first polity he'll come across will be the kindgom of Qin. Tough luck: at that time the Legalist ideology had been thoroughly implemented by Shang Yang under the patronage of Duke Xiao, and Qin had turned into a lean, mean garrison state, its fighting skills honed by frequent skirmishes against nomadic barbarians, and its forces geared up towards conquest of the rest of China.
Well, we are talking about the route between the West and China, so Alexander would have to march through Assam and Nagaland, which do fit the thick rainforest and tribesmen bill. Of course, he also would have to march through the North Indian Plain, which certainly was filled with large, organized states. I don't see how Alexander's exhausted army would even reach the Burmese borderlands, let alone get into China. Alternatively, the Macedonian mountainboys could find out what MOUNTAINS are (and face the proto-Gurkha tribes).Flocculencio said:
Shope
Banned
NFR said:
According the the translator of the version of Art of War that I read, Sun Tzu was around in the 300s. Maybe you know more about it than him, but I doubt you do.
If I remember right, he says that Art of War couldn't've possibly been written before 400 BC--because of the language used in it.
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Hendryk said:
Possibly Alexander could cut a deal with the Qins, or ally with them? Maybe at least something like "Let us tromp through your territory, and you get X, Y and Z?"*
Just an idea.
*please note: this is, of course, no relation to the XYZ Affair. Thank you.