AHC/WI: Better Russian Navy

PoeFacedKilla

PoeFacedKilla

Banned
With a POD in the great northern war how good could we possibly make the russian navy without giving them more ports than they had OTL?

Is it possible for them to rule the seas? Or is it to late by then?
How does this effect Napoleon or the Crimean?
 
PoeFacedKilla

PoeFacedKilla

Banned
Anaxagoras said:
Any POD in the Great Northern War means that Napoleon is never born and the Crimean War never takes place.
Click to expand...

Ok, well i was just naming a couple of wars;
perhaps i should have said something like, how does this effect the 17-1800s.
and the great game (which i don't think could be butterflied away with that POD, russia was already in asia.
 
BBadolato

BBadolato

I don't think it's possible to make a better Russian Navy because their territory was only on land, and the Navy would be at least used as patrols and a defense force. You would have to make Russia as we know it confined to only the Urals and Crimea, or you would have to find a justifiable reason for Russia to build up it's Navy. I don't think That Russia could ever rule the seas with A POD that late, and how would Russia be able to compete with powers that have strong navies out of necessity.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Actually, Russia did have a chance at entering the Baltic sea trade early during Ivan the Terrible's reign, which was to rebuild the port of Ivangorod.
 

Colonel Blimp

The big question, too, is that of why. Imperial and pre-WWII Soviet Russia had relatively weak navies because there was no real reason for them to require dominance of the seas--any nation they would potentially fight would be done so by land.

Post-WWII, the Soviets did build up their submarine force, but that for somewhat era-dependent reasons---ballistic missiles are much easier to hide under the ocean, and the plan to defeat NATO required the ability to deprive the US of the ability to resupply Europe, a commerce-rading mission which well suit submarines.

Unless ATL Russia extends well beyond the Baltic, there's just no reason to expend resources which could better be spent in an Army division.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
How else would Russia conduct its maritime trade in either the Baltic or Black Seas if they don't have a stronger navy? Having a stronger navy could also mean using the shipyards used to build warships to build a merchant fleet.
 

RGB

Warmer and more secure ports would certainly help. A native tradition of merchant marine could also help (more wealthy free peasants and merchants, less serfdom).

Russia already had a decent enough navy considering it didn't really really need one as large or as good. It's quite possible to make it better, but it's hard to keep the country's interest on it when there are competing pressures.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
My first completed Russian TL has an early development of a Russian merchant fleet. Setting that aside, Ivangorod was the only viable port in pre-Romanov Russia that is capable of hosting merchant ships as St. Petersburg did not yet exist.
 

Snake Featherston

Banned
The Great Northern War is too late, the Livonian War would be a better POD as it would give Russia a longer time to build a naval presence where it would do Russia some actual good.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Snake Featherston said:
The Great Northern War is too late, the Livonian War would be a better POD as it would give Russia a longer time to build a naval presence where it would do Russia some actual good.
Click to expand...

The Livonian War was the result of Ivangorod not being rebuilt. As I recall, the PoD I used was that Hans Schlitte and 100 German builders are not detained by Lubeck port authorities on Poland's request. IOTL, they were captured, and as a result, Ivangorod didn't become the major port.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top