A World Without: Farewell America

[EnglishCanuck]

Yes it's gonna be interesting to see how the American revolts keep on dying and dying, and how the rest of the Americas and colonial world evolve... and this super Germany. (Please no nazis )

Yay pro-British! Dominions ftw!

That's good, SA wasn't really important to the world IOTL, so hopefully there's a good story there.

I promise you we won't see any Nazis

I have to warn everyone that as a Canadian I do have a soft spot for us but its not gonna be a Canadawank or a Britainwank (as upcoming events will show) and Canada is roughly gonna be about as exciting as it was IOTL

Mexico will be...different to say the least. With no US to stomp them as badly I'm going to try to be as generous as I can with them and see how things go from there. And SA will certainly be much more important.

 

[Bartholome de Fonte]

American Empire? One, it was never an empire.

As was already pointed out, I didn't mean an Empire with an Emperor, merely the exertion of power.

Two, it's a British colony still. During this year, the Brits haven't conquered all the land it did in OTL (like the mass amount of land in Africa).

Do you mean the mid to late 19th century colonisation of Africa? That hasn't happened yet. However, the Dutch didn't get involved as much so the British don't have the Cape Colony.

 

[Tsochar]

Now this is interesting. I'll be following this thread.
Curious to know for how long colonialism is sustainable without a successful war of independence to kick things off.

EDIT: Where, exactly, did Arnold go? Deeper into the continent? Looking forward to seeing where his story goes.

 

[Pichuscrat]

Do you mean the mid to late 19th century colonisation of Africa? That hasn't happened yet. However, the Dutch didn't get involved as much so the British don't have the Cape Colony.

Yes, I meant the 19th century.

 

[Bartholome de Fonte]

Yes, I meant the 19th century.

And that still hasn't happened yet so you can't say that English wont be as wide spread as it is OTL.

 

[Pichuscrat]

And that still hasn't happened yet so you can't say that English wont be as wide spread as it is OTL.

But that's my... listen, you said that English was so wide spread due to the "American and British Empires"!!! When did I say that?!?! You're just help proving my point of a possible Spanish-speaking majority world.

 

[Bartholome de Fonte]

But that's my... listen, you said that English was so wide spread due to the "American and British Empires"!!! When did I say that?!?! You're just help proving my point of a possible Spanish-speaking majority world.

Right then, get huffy over nothing.

I don't see how, nor I do care as it's just going to derail this story.

 

[Pichuscrat]

Right then, get huffy over nothing.

I don't see how, nor I do care as it's just going to derail this story.

Shall we agree to stop nagging

Okay then... let's talk about the French Revolution... I wonder what happens?

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Shall we agree to stop nagging

Okay then... let's talk about the French Revolution... I wonder what happens?

Well, without the success of the American Revolution, the French aren't going to have their 'inspiration'. It will probably be a revolution of ousting a corrupt and poor ruler rather than one of getting rid of the monarchy. With this in mind, it might even be contained to just France without the wild expansions and war against Europe of OTL.

 

[Pichuscrat]

Well, without the success of the American Revolution, the French aren't going to have their 'inspiration'. It will probably be a revolution of ousting a corrupt and poor ruler rather than one of getting rid of the monarchy. With this in mind, it might even be contained to just France without the wild expansions and war against Europe of OTL.

I personally think the "new" revolution in France will be a little later then OTL, as there is no inspirational successful revolution. I agree with you in the fact that there wouldn't be an overthrow of monarchy, just massive reformations.

 

[Nicksplace27]

I personally think the "new" revolution in France will be a little later then OTL, as there is no inspirational successful revolution. I agree with you in the fact that there wouldn't be an overthrow of monarchy, just massive reformations.

I disagree, I think that the Corsican Republic as well as the writings of Rousseau, Voltaire and others were far more important to ideological bent of the revolution and regicide isn't unheard of (English Civil War).

 

[eliphas8]

American Empire? One, it was never an empire. Two, it's a British colony still. During this year, the Brits haven't conquered all the land it did in OTL (like the mass amount of land in Africa).

It's just my uneducated guess, really. From my mind, I thought of a quick TL where Mexico goes on and establishes a Mexican empire in the pacific like OTL USA, Mexico discovers and invents the Internet, and things like that. As you suggested, much things can happen.

Actually if you go by the modern definition of empire which is just a nation that controls other sovereign nations then the US is an empire, they have controlled the Philippians, Hawaii, and Puerto Rice so technically it is an empire.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I disagree, I think that the Corsican Republic as well as the writings of Rousseau, Voltaire and others were far more important to ideological bent of the revolution and regicide isn't unheard of (English Civil War).

Regicide might still occur, but that doesn't mean abolishing the monarchy. Monarchies were the norm in Europe at this time, remember - even the republic of OTL descended back into a monarchy with Napolean, and again after him with the Bourbons reinstated, and then again with Napolean III. There's no reason to believe a republic might work for France - Corsica is a small place, and America was a larger when where a republican revolution just failed miserably.

Actually if you go by the modern definition of empire which is just a nation that controls other sovereign nations then the US is an empire, they have controlled the Philippians, Hawaii, and Puerto Rice so technically it is an empire.

We've already been over this, mate.

 

[Tsochar]

Actually if you go by the modern definition of empire which is just a nation that controls other sovereign nations then the US is an empire, they have controlled the Philippians, Hawaii, and Puerto Rice so technically it is an empire.

Not to mention the surviving Native American nations (notably Navajo), Guam, the NMI, and American Samoa. Of course, PR was never technically sovereign. By that definition, however, India would count as an empire as well. It always gets messy when you apply labels to countries, between differing definitions and outright falsehoods (case in point, DPRK is not democratic, nor a republic, and neither for nor by its people. And, of course, Voltaire's famous quote, "This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire." On the other hand, the PRC has all of the members of its National People's Congress elected; despite the NPC's lack of real authority in the country, its members are the ones that go on to serve in the various committees that have actual authorities, so one could still call such a system a republic.)

 

[EnglishCanuck]

And, of course, Voltaire's famous quote, "This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.")

Gotta love Voltaire his writings are sincerely beautiful and humourous. I may disagree with him sometimes but I do like his style! Needless to say I may use his wit a few times ITTL.

NOTICE: The next installment is done and I will be posting it tommorow.

 

[eliphas8]

Not to mention the surviving Native American nations (notably Navajo), Guam, the NMI, and American Samoa. Of course, PR was never technically sovereign. By that definition, however, India would count as an empire as well. It always gets messy when you apply labels to countries, between differing definitions and outright falsehoods (case in point, DPRK is not democratic, nor a republic, and neither for nor by its people. And, of course, Voltaire's famous quote, "This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.")

Technically India does qualify, although in that case those countries havent existed for so long that the country is now more India than it is a country made up of many countries.

 

[Tsochar]

Technically India does qualify, although in that case those countries havent existed for so long that the country is now more India than it is a country made up of many countries.

Hawaii was annexed by the US 112 years ago, while Sikkim was joined with India under very shady circumstances 36 years ago. Prior to that it was independent from 1642 to 1888, which is quite a bit longer than the modern nation has existed. Just saying.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Chapter 2: Life Goes On​

With the defeat of the revolutionaries in America life continued. The British however were swift to ensure that their authority was unquestioned and that no one would dare challenge their dominance again. The execution of all captured founding fathers was swift and anyone who had served above the rank of captain in the Continental army was also executed if caught. Militias were always placed under the authority of the army. Loyalists were rewarded while those known to support the rebels had land confiscated and were forced to pay fines for the damage caused by the war. While many of the Northern Colonies chafed there were no overt acts of rebellion.

The occasional act of civil disobedience did crop up and any sort of Republican political movement was outlawed in the wake of the revolution. The most violent act was the Philadelphia riots of 1782 when rebels were forced to pay fines. This sparked similar protests but none as violent as the riots which resulted in street fighting between former rebels and loyalists until British troops were able to place the city under control again, this resulted in the death of 30 British soldiers and 97 citizens of all political stripes. It was also the largest disturbance after the First Rebellion.

However, the colonists did gain some advantages. Land was parceled out to locals rather than be at the mercy of land holders in England as loyalists were now rewarded with it. After 1783 taxes were eased as industry picked up and the colonies began paying for themselves. In 1784 the restrictions on west ward expansion were lifted and colonists were finally allowed to move past the Appalachians.

The reasoning for this was twofold. The first was to relieve pressure built up by angry Americans while the second was very practical. Throughout this time Benedict Arnolds “Army of the American Republic” continued to launch guerrilla raids against settlements and British outposts. To the horror of London they had been confirmed to make alliances with Indian tribes hostile to British influence as well as begin building settlements. It was resolved that to crush them they would be driven deeper into the wilderness. Firstly the British made use of their allies in the Iroquois Confederacy to drive away the tribes that supported the Americans. The Iroquois who had nearly fragmented during the revolution were all too eager to both punish the dissident members of their tribes and the Americans who had plagued them so. Arnold by this point had gathered nearly 20,000 to his banner as former rebels fled the justice of the British. Many chose to settle close to Louisiana and seek the support of the French while others continued to fight in the guerrilla war against British tyranny. Thus did the major expansion of the West slowly begin. At first merely military expeditions bent on destroying the support for the Army of the Republic and then permanent settlers to cement British control of the region. This was of course a slow process that would take many years to begin as the majority of the settlers chose to travel to the Canadian provinces or New England states.

This did however force Arnold and his forces deeper into the interior where they continued aggressively raiding forts and settlements while weathering raids by the British and Iroquois. While they received marginal support from France they remained mostly on their own. The villages and farmsteads that comprised this “country” were clustered very close to the Southern colonies and Louisiana in order to maximise their support. This ebbed away at Arnolds support but due to a combination of his ruthless policies of control and his ability to protect the slowly growing numbers of malcontents under his command this ‘army’ would continue to be a thorn in the British side.

Though London continuously predicted that this movement would simply wither and die by 1788 it seemed to be intent on doing none of the above. Though by 1789 things would change dramatically.

In the Southern Colonies they were increasingly pleased as their place as the dominant area of British North America. Though the institution of slavery continued to drive the economy much to ire of a growing movement in England they would continue it unimpeded. Though slowly but surely this system became overshadowed by the industrializing North.
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Ok here we have our latest installment detailing life in the American Colonies post revolution and some foreshadowing of what is to come. Once again comments and criticism is appreciated. I'll hopefully have another installment in the next few days.

I'm pulling an all nighter doing an essay so I figured this was the best time to post this

 

[Nicksplace27]

How did the colonies get representation in Parliament? Thats a huge step that is not easily done. It requires Britain to be a lot more liberal than IOTL. Lord North would never accept American representation in Parliament. And are they MPs in the commons? Holding elections there are gonna be tough; with the turnaround times for travel between America and Britain being so long.

I think it would more likely be a situation like India; seething under British rule.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

How did the colonies get representation in Parliament? Thats a huge step that is not easily done. It requires Britain to be a lot more liberal than IOTL. Lord North would never accept American representation in Parliament. And are they MPs in the commons? Holding elections there are gonna be tough; with the turnaround times for travel between America and Britain being so long.

I think it would more likely be a situation like India; seething under British rule.

Your probably right. I sorta threw that in there after I posted it because I figured it would make more sense that way. But in hindsight I think thats better left out. I'll remove that.