There's probably been a trillion threads on AH detailing a Central Powers victory (and I've read far too many of them), but I haven't seen much regarding a possible "stalemate", if it is possible at all. And by stalemate, I refer to a negotiated end to World War I that leaves most of the major powers in the war (France, UK, Germany), generally intact (at least militarily and territorially). Would this be even possible considering the total war mindset of most of the nations? I could see a military stalemate on the Western front (especially if the USA somehow doesn't enter the war), but I could also see one side (probably the CP) run out of steam after a while and collapse. Has anyone ever forayed into possible scenarios leading to negotiated "lenient" ends to World War I?
A World War I Stalemate?
- Thread starter Danmaku
- Start date
BlairWitch749
Banned
By forgoing the spring offensive and the germans keeping their elite storm troop divisions in reserve there was some possibility of this since France and England where nearing the end of their manpower reserves... a pod at Verdun where the Germans were more successful is far more viable though
The TL in my sig is based on a stalemated WW1 due to the US not getting into the war. I'm not sure how plausible it is though.
wormyguy
Banned
There was no such thing as an "elite storm trooper division" - storm troopers were a tactic, not a specific group of soldiers. Germany was increasingly recruiting from the old, the young, and criminals for the army, and it was quickly becoming more and more politically unreliable, while the British blockade was starving Germany to death and Germany's allies began exploring options for their own surrender. The closest thing to a "stalemate" one can achieve with WWI is a situation where the armies on both sides of the front are in a state of open mutiny and refuse to attack each other.
I think a stalemate could be possible.
However, I also read quite a couple of CP timelines in this forum, and quite a few which were close to a stalemate or could be made a stalemate peace easily. The overall effect however was "Germany had not won the war, but it won the peace" - no matter whether Austria-Hungary or Russia collapse or not. So I'd say a couple of years after the stalemate peace, you'd be pretty close to a CP-won-albeit-indecisively-scenario
However, I also read quite a couple of CP timelines in this forum, and quite a few which were close to a stalemate or could be made a stalemate peace easily. The overall effect however was "Germany had not won the war, but it won the peace" - no matter whether Austria-Hungary or Russia collapse or not. So I'd say a couple of years after the stalemate peace, you'd be pretty close to a CP-won-albeit-indecisively-scenario
Alex Richards
Donor
I did a TL based on this idea (and a different Russian Revolution) here. I'm rewriting it at the moment (some parts about the Romanovs don't work very well), but the peace treaties (detailed here) are a good example of what could happen. The main issues is the reparations, which don't quite work right, and that bit about Nicholas II. And here's a map.
Early in the war I think its possible if unlikely.
If Russia's collapse has occured however it is hard to see it since a white peace from this point involves letting Germany retain effective dominion over almost all of Eastern Europe, which in short it would qualify a major victory. France and Britain wouldn't accept this unless they had truely lost all hope of overturning it by force of arms. This would only happen if the Entente bleed themselves dry and if they do so its hard to see why Germany would then turn around and offer lenient terms.
If Russia's collapse has occured however it is hard to see it since a white peace from this point involves letting Germany retain effective dominion over almost all of Eastern Europe, which in short it would qualify a major victory. France and Britain wouldn't accept this unless they had truely lost all hope of overturning it by force of arms. This would only happen if the Entente bleed themselves dry and if they do so its hard to see why Germany would then turn around and offer lenient terms.
BlairWitch749
Banned
I meant the assualt divisions that were used in the spring offensive that had the highest proportion of good soldiers...
what you mentioned about dual mutiny is a possibility
perhaps everyone defaulting on the war bonds causing an economic meltdown?