Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Historyfan 92, Jun 29, 2007.
Something like that.
Thought this should go here:
Essentially I've turned the "bar enarched in base" into its own named charge. Ideally used for bridges and the like!
Interesting. With a less rounded base to the shield (i.e. a more pointed base), the double-arch will give something like a heart shape below, which I could envisage being used symbolically.
What's all the fess about?
May I request a heraldry?
Wilfred of Ivanhoe:
Helm -- Knight's helm with Crusader Cross
Background - Merica cross (for those that are in the dark - Saint Andrew's Cross, but instead of white there is yellow)
Foreground - An oak tree (or ash-tree) with a Saxon crown on it / or around its trunk
Label - instead of the first born son's label, there is the words "Disinherited" in French (or Latin)
Supporters -- (technically they would not be around during the period, but I will put it in anyway) -- White Wvyern of Wessex (for Rowena) and a woman with a harp (for Rebecca).
Wouldn't Harold Godwinson use the White Wvyern? The white (or golden) dragon is associated with the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Wessex. The Bayeaux Tapestry depicts a dragon twice, both in the death scene of King Harold. One is a red dragon with white wings held aloft a staff. The same scene also contains a fallen dragon, which may be considered to be either brown or golden. This dragon is two legged, a form later known as a wyvern. Evidence for it as a golden dragon is supported by the fact that King Harold II was previously the Earl of Wessex.
This bit confuses me, either a knight of noble heritage has the right to bear modified arms of his house or he doesn't. Being disinherited of one's property doesn't affect your right to bear arms.
It is in the book - Ivanhoe. On his shield is written the word - "Disinherited". He has the right to bear arms, but I am using the canon marking.
I concur with @The Professor , though I hadn't realised it worked like that and have just spent a fascinating half hour reading up on armigers. Assuming, at any rate, that this Wilfred of Ivanhoe is a legitimate descendent of someone granted arms under English law and that the grant of arms contained the usual rules, then:
a) all legitimate descendents through the male line from that person have, from birth, an impartible, inalienable and descendable right to those arms. In short, you can't disinherit someone from arms;
b) the cadency marks seem to have been codified around 1500 as far as English law/practice goes and have never really been an enforced thing anyway. It's far more usual for everyone with a right to a certain coat of arms to use that coat undifferenced, regardless of distance from the current 'head of house'.
So assuming we're on about the Ivanhoe of Sir Walter Scott's novel, he had the right to bear the undifferenced coat of arms regardless of disinheritence.
From reading the synopsis, the whole reason he had 'disinherited' in Old Spanish on his shield was because he was jousting as an anonymous knight who only introduced himself as "Disinherited" too, hence wouldn't have put it on top of his real coat of arms. That would defeat the whole point of not giving his real name.
I've been trying to turn this into a Wiki-style CoA, but I've had no luck so far.
Except Sir Walter Scott knew buggerall about heraldry.
As Battlestar_Cydonia mentions above Arms are used to identify who you are so wouldn't be used by anyone trying to be anonymous in the first place.
@Battlestar_Cydonia is quite correct - the device Ivanhoe uses in the tournament is for that day only. The actual line is: 'the device on his shield was a young oak-tree pulled up by the roots, with the Spanish word Desdichado, signifying Disinherited'. Ivanhoe was using the name 'the Disinherited Knight' in a jousting tournament, with the oak-tree uprooted to symbolise the uprooting of Saxon rights by the Normans; the word Desdichado was there just to make this even clearer (though only to those who could read, and read Spanish at that!).
So in this case he was using a device (symbol) just for the day. His own arms would not have had Desdichado on them. I can't recall if Ivanhoe's own arms are actually detailed in the book. If not, then there's no particular problem with the symbols you request except the use of Desdichado on them - miss that out and they're fine.
Something I never got around to computerfying:
something looks very...sinister about this, I'd conFESS...
Bit of a cross post, an heir to Phillip II/III and possible arms as King & Emperor:
At the behest of @The Professor (thanks for pointing out this thread exists, by the way) I'll post the past three works of mine, all of which include coats of arm.
Academia's a bit of a hustle, huh? Here we have the three and a half universities of Tuinstria and a proposed fourth. Much caviling abounds in the hallowed halls of the isle's institutions, with U-Tuin declaring Juvy to be upstart hicks who have only been published in the Smedleyville Law Review 328 times, as opposed to their 340; while Juvy professors drink and laugh over U-Tuin's terribly outdated agricultural surveys and geological simulators. Erstwhile Ptunarran undergrads shout slurs at passing TMC research ships as they pass down the west coast to their research fisheries, and every would-be professor in St. Anne draws up starry-eyed plans for their own campus, filled with statues and gardens and hooke-wait no.
Tasmania has only two universities in real life, Utas and the Australian Maritime College. But you can bet your ass everyone in Newnham hates everyone in Sandy Bay, and I'm not the first to propose that the north splits off as its own university. Maybe could have arranged this list a little more compactly, but ah well.
So I tried to remake the original coat of arms of the University of Tasmania based on the 1936 design by one Egbert Holder Harry, an alumnus native to Launceston, with some very minor changes (namely the queer angle of the torch). He included a description of the four quartered elements, as well as the crown, as follows:
- A lion passant Gules in a field Argent (the Tasmanian Badge).
- An open book Or in a field Azure (representing the academic side of University activity).
- The Southern Cross Or in a field Azure (representative of Australia).
- A Torch Gules in a field Argent (representing the athletic side of University activity).
- [Crest] A castle rising from a crown (Or), signifying the royal charter held by the University.
The design won out of a field of 47 designs, for a prize of five guineas. However, upon asking the cost of registering the arms for official use the Australian High Commission told them it would cost £150. This substantial cost saw the university eschew Harry's design, instead commissioning a set of arms from a Mr E Kruger Gray without actually registering the design. This, of course, was illegal.
Gray's design is substantively different from that of Harry's, and is the one used by the university in modern times: he gave more prominence to the lion, having them hold the torch, and placed a book on either side of the Southern Cross, all this sitting above the lion. Gray's design also holds the distinction of being the only CoA in Australia that has closed books, whereas they are open in other designs. The torch is also unique among Australian universities, though other institutions have them from time to time.
I think there's a certain charm to Harry's design. His design was rejected but then immediately pilfered by the university, which strikes me as rather unjust. Because they didn't want to register his design they simply stole its elements and recreated it. Harry would've probably had a substantive basis to sue and may have had the means to as he held two bachelors in art and commerce, but I suspect that as the university never officially registered it's coat of arms in the period (though they most certainly have in modern times, particularly with Australia's legal independence from the UK) there wasn't a technical infringement and so no basis to sue. Or perhaps Harry got his five guineas and so was simply disinterested in how the university might warp his vision. In any event, I quite like it.
So my surname is Clifford, which isn't a secret as I haven't done well to keep my identity on the web a secret. All of this CoA sans the rampant lion is a part of the original Clifford CoA, I added said lion to represent my native Tasmania, of which it is a symbol. The motto, 'Semper Paratus, means 'Always Prepared' which is ironic if you know me. The idea had just been scratching at the back of my mind for a while and I wanted to see how it'd look. These are rather a lot of fun to make when they're not too tedious.
Any chance if a timeline?
Can someone make a coat of arms for a Slavic state in the central alps (around RL Switzerland)?
I need one for a little "country profile"/fact card i'm making for a challenge, but I just don't know what I want it to look like. Help pls.
Some background on the country:
They would be descendants of the Caranthanians from Austria, and would have been part of the HRE in the middle ages. There is a large German Population, as well as very small French and Italian groups (though they're much less influential). The location is like Switzerland, but shifted a bit to the east.
The flag is a simple blue and white bicolour, but you don't by any means have to use those colours.
All I want is the shield, I don't need supporters (i'm probably going to just use an eagle) or a helm.
If you send drawings, that's fine, if I like it, i'll make it in Photoshop.
Thanks for the help. You will be credited if you want.
That basically sounds like slovenia. Would you not want to use their arms and modify it?
Separate names with a comma.