A modest proposal -two map threads

[Legolas]

I am in general opposed to elitism of any kind, but I agree that something could be done to promote constructive criticism of maps. There is a number of alternate solutions to an "elitist" map thread though. Some that I can think of off the top of my head are:

- A separate subforum for maps (maybe artwork in general, so Photos from alt. worlds and stuff like that go in there as well), where people who create maps regularly could have their own threads and there would be a few threads for general purposes, i.e. people who are new to mapmaking. This would be a good place to write down general guidelines for mapmaking as well.

- "Adopt a newbie" program, where an experienced mapmaker would "adopt" a newbie who wants to make maps and teach him the basics and give criticism personally. That way, new people would start creating better maps quickly, and so there would be less n00b-spam in the Map Thread.

- Somehow advertise making more comments on the DA pages of the "good" maps - it doesn't help the Map Thread, but it will give maps the criticism and commentary they deserve.

I'm sure there are more ways to solve the problem.

 

[Scarecrow]

I am in general opposed to elitism of any kind, but I agree that something could be done to promote constructive criticism of maps. There is a number of alternate solutions to an "elitist" map thread though. Some that I can think of off the top of my head are:

- A separate subforum for maps (maybe artwork in general, so Photos from alt. worlds and stuff like that go in there as well), where people who create maps regularly could have their own threads and there would be a few threads for general purposes, i.e. people who are new to mapmaking. This would be a good place to write down general guidelines for mapmaking as well.

I quite like this idea. I think this might work better then my original idea, but it all depends upon whether Ian would create a separate sub-forum for maps. That way we could each create a thread each to show off our maps.

- "Adopt a newbie" program, where an experienced mapmaker would "adopt" a newbie who wants to make maps and teach him the basics and give criticism personally. That way, new people would start creating better maps quickly, and so there would be less n00b-spam in the Map Thread.

- Somehow advertise making more comments on the DA pages of the "good" maps - it doesn't help the Map Thread, but it will give maps the criticism and commentary they deserve.

I'm sure there are more ways to solve the problem.

Also good ideas.

 

[Legolas]

Another idea to show off the best maps would be to create a collection where Definitely Awesome maps from the Map Thread would be reposted. This would be more objective than just a separate map thread for "better" mapmakers, but the selection process would require a dedicated person to do this.

 

[Blomma]

I dont like the idea because eventually that map thread will be overrun wth horrible maps made by noobs.

As opposed to the current map thread, which is being overrun by horrible maps made by noobs.

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[Highlander]

Meh, I'm still for the Portfolio thread, but maybe a subforum would be okay. Not so sure about us each getting our own thread, though; I can see some being ignored. If it's all in one thread people would be forced to at least glance at it.

Frankly, the cut off for the thread would be quite easy. It's obvious to spot a map that someone put some effort and thought into creating, whether in Paint or not.

 

[Legolas]

Frankly, the cut off for the thread would be quite easy. It's obvious to spot a map that someone put some effort and thought into creating, whether in Paint or not.

Is a map that is created in several minutes in Paint, but showcases a great idea a "good" or a "bad" map? Also, what would you propose to do in the inevitable situation when a "bad" map is posted in the Portfolio thread? Delete that map? Not react? Criticise it as any other? What would be the incentive for people to put their map in the "bad" map thread, if it is specifically created for maps which are not to be criticised?

 

[Highlander]

Is a map that is created in several minutes in Paint, but showcases a great idea a "good" or a "bad" map?

Well, in that case, I would suggest maybe posting it in the Map thread, and if people say, "hey, that is a really good idea!", maybe they can post it in the Portfolio.

Also, what would you propose to do in the inevitable situation when a "bad" map is posted in the Portfolio thread? Delete that map? Not react? Criticise it as any other? What would be the incentive for people to put their map in the "bad" map thread, if it is specifically created for maps which are not to be criticised?

Just politely say and explain what the thread is for. Criticism can still take place in the Map thread, of course. But even now I don't really see that much for these five minute jobs. And it would be a good starting place for noobs as well.

 

[Qazaq2007]

Time for me to stick my two cents in, all in all those are some great ideas, but there is one issue not being covered, and that is good vs. bad criticism in regards to maps posted in the map threads. There needs to be guidelines as far as criticizing someone's map. Rude criticizing of a poster's map, especially a noobie should not be tolerated, and besides it can turn off a possible aspiring cartographer who is possibly seeking advice on how to improve his/her map drawing skills. Any criticizing of maps should be limited to constructive criticism that is designed to encourage an aspiring cartographer. I am not implying that anyone here has been rudely criticizing posted maps, just want to nip that possible problem in the bud before it raises its ugly head.

 

[Thande]

What I want to know is, why did Scarecrow use a thread title that evokes eating Irish babies?

 

[Roberto]

What I want to know is, why did Scarecrow use a thread title that evokes eating Irish babies?

Because that's what's going to happen if we don't get a second Map Thread!!!

But that would just put you and the other Hiberno-skeptics firmly in the "one thread" party...

 

[Scarecrow]

Time for me to stick my two cents in, all in all those are some great ideas, but there is one issue not being covered, and that is good vs. bad criticism in regards to maps posted in the map threads. There needs to be guidelines as far as criticizing someone's map. Rude criticizing of a poster's map, especially a noobie should not be tolerated, and besides it can turn off a possible aspiring cartographer who is possibly seeking advice on how to improve his/her map drawing skills. Any criticizing of maps should be limited to constructive criticism that is designed to encourage an aspiring cartographer. I am not implying that anyone here has been rudely criticizing posted maps, just want to nip that possible problem in the bud before it raises its ugly head.

That is a very good point Qazaq. I think the thread would need some guidelines drawn up vis a vis what constitutes constructive criticism. I'll have a look at other art forums to see what rules they have in place.

So say in the opening post the laws of the thread are detailed. Basicly you can post what you want, but be prepared to get some constructive criticism.

 

[Highlander]

So say in the opening post the laws of the thread are detailed. Basicly you can post what you want, but be prepared to get some constructive criticism.

I would also suggest having a stickied, locked thread saying the rules as well, as I don't know how many people would go to the first page right away.

 

[Scarecrow]

I would also suggest having a stickied, locked thread saying the rules as well, as I don't know how many people would go to the first page right away.

Perhaps a stickied thread expalianing the differences between the Map Thread and the Map Portfolio?

 

[OAM47]

I'll say it again, n00bs and newbies do not read stickies.

Personaly, I'm more for creating a new thread if you want to be serious about a certain map. I tried it recently, with mixed results, but if it became commonplace, it would probably get a little better in terms of what we want.

 

[karl2025]

I'm against this idea. I think it's silly and just a way for people to beat their chests and say, "I'm better than all those noobs."

 

[Highlander]

Perhaps a stickied thread expalianing the differences between the Map Thread and the Map Portfolio?

That was my gist.

I think it's silly and just a way for people to beat their chests and say, "I'm better than all those noobs."

Maybe if you spent hours on a piece of work and it gets buried in mountains of hackjobs you would understand.

 

[Zimmerwald1915]

I'll say it again, n00bs and newbies do not read stickies.

Newbs and n00bs aren't the target audience for these particular stickies: the target audience are veterans whose thoughtless dismissal of first attempts may dissuade newbs (there's no hope for n00bs) from trying to learn.

At least, that's the way I read Highlander's post.

 

[Zyzzyva]

It's not a bad idea in theory, but implementation would be a bitch. I'm going to have to vote for no, sorry.

 

[WhatIsAUserName]

Another idea to show off the best maps would be to create a collection where Definitely Awesome maps from the Map Thread would be reposted. This would be more objective than just a separate map thread for "better" mapmakers, but the selection process would require a dedicated person to do this.

What about a "Definitely Awesome" thread where members don't post their own maps, but instead, one would post a map made by somebody else, a map generally recognized as being of high-quality. If a noob decides to post a poorly-constructed map he, she, or somebody else made, then the post gets deleted. And it would also be unlikely that noobs would create their own alliances to post each others' bad maps in this thread.

 

[Qazaq2007]

That is a very good point Qazaq. I think the thread would need some guidelines drawn up vis a vis what constitutes constructive criticism. I'll have a look at other art forums to see what rules they have in place.

So say in the opening post the laws of the thread are detailed. Basicly you can post what you want, but be prepared to get some constructive criticism.

I would definately go along w/ the idea that the initial post of the proposed thread explains the rules, great idea.