A Britain of Panthers and Lions: House of Oldenburg Britain

[VVD0D95]

There is less religious issue, and more the fact that the most recent Portuguese Queen was infertile.
However, with a Neuburg princess for a mother, such fear may be put aside.

I think that for anti-French alliance it can work.

This is very true, f course raises the question of what to do re Ulrika Eleonora and whether she marries her husband of Hesse or someone else

 

[Valena]

If there is a fear of a Portuguese queen after (relatively) bad precedent and an alliance with Prussia is sought, there is a candidate for Princess of Wales to emerge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_of_Ansbach
Yes, this puts Royal family on semi-deterministic rails, but: a) Caroline was considered one of the most beautiful Princesses of her era; b) Caroline's OTL husband was the suitor of Ulrika Eleonora.

 

[VVD0D95]

If there is a fear of a Portuguese queen after (relatively) bad precedent and an alliance with Prussia is sought, there is a candidate for Princess of Wales to emerge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_of_Ansbach
Yes, this puts Royal family on semi-deterministic rails, but: a) Caroline was considered one of the most beautiful Princesses of her era; b) Caroline's OTL husband was the suitor of Ulrika Eleonora.

Oh now that’s very interesting, I did not know george ii was a suitor for Ulrika. Would this marriage alliance web be more preferential than James to Ulrika

 

[Valena]

Caroline had good looks and brain, both things Ulrika lacked, and Anne may go for this match maybe out of spite for her cousin to snatch the treat.
She's also "a Prussian princess without actually being a Prussian princess", and thus a good match (she was considered Holy Roman Empress/Queen of Spain material in 1703, after all).

Giving Caroline to James and offering one of the princesses to Swedish court would be a reasonable course of action, if Anne learns from example of her cousin (Karl II of Palatinate) that saddling heir apparent with ugly wife when prettier alternative exists does not work. Pissing off Sophia of Hannover is a bonus.

 

[VVD0D95]

Caroline had good looks and brain, both things Ulrika lacked, and Anne may go for this match maybe out of spite for her cousin to snatch the treat.
She's also "a Prussian princess without actually being a Prussian princess", and thus a good match (she was considered Holy Roman Empress/Queen of Spain material in 1703, after all).

Giving Caroline to James and offering one of the princesses to Swedish court would be a reasonable course of action, if Anne learns from example of her cousin (Karl II of Palatinate) that saddling heir apparent with ugly wife when prettier alternative exists does not work. Pissing off Sophia of Hannover is a bonus.

Aha alright I like it. I was thinking Anne’s eldest daughter mary would Mary Charles XII

 

[Valena]

Or at least would be engaged to him, given Karl's tendency to weasel out of marriages. Though I don't believe he was gay - Protestant Sebastian I would be a better analogue.

 

[VVD0D95]

Or at least would be engaged to him, given Karl's tendency to weasel out of marriages. Though I don't believe he was gay - Protestant Sebastian I would be a better analogue.

Aha interesting, so to confirm in your view a direct Prussian marriage with Frederick William might not happen? Instead James might marry Caroline or Ansbach

 

[Valena]

Yes.
That fits better in Anne's mindset.

 

[VVD0D95]

Yes.
That fits better in Anne's mindset.

Okay gotcha, hmm perhaps her namesake and second daughter can marry John v ofmportugal

 

[Valena]

Okay gotcha, hmm perhaps her namesake and second daughter can marry John v ofmportugal

I think it may work. Portugal is an old ally, after all, and the match would be lobbied by Dowager Queen Catherine, who OTL was John's surrogate mom.

Catherine remained in England, living at Somerset House,[12] through the reign of James and his deposition in the Glorious Revolution by William III and Mary II. She remained in England partly because of a protracted lawsuit against her former Lord Chamberlain, Henry Hyde, 2nd Earl of Clarendon, over money that she claimed as part of her allowance and that he claimed was part of the perquisite of his office. Catherine's fondness for money is one of the more unexpected features of her character: her brother-in-law James, who was himself notably avaricious, remarked that she always drove a hard bargain.

Initially on good terms with William and Mary, her position deteriorated as the practice of her religion led to misunderstandings and increasing isolation. A bill was introduced to Parliament to limit the number of Catherine's Catholic servants, and she was warned not to agitate against the government.

She finally returned to Portugal in March 1692, where she took care of and mentored her nephew, Prince John. His mother, Maria Sofia of Neuburg, had recently died, and the prince had fallen into a depression. Catherine was instrumental in lifting the young prince's spirits, and soon became a key part in his life, as his tutor and main female figure in his life. Her death would, in fact, cause Prince John to experience another depression.

I don't know what Catherine's situation TTL, but if her nephew can be married to a British princess, she'd lobby for this.

 

[VVD0D95]

I think it may work. Portugal is an old ally, after all, and the match would be lobbied by Dowager Queen Catherine, who OTL was John's surrogate mom.

I don't know what Catherine's situation TTL, but if her nephew can be married to a British princess, she'd lobby for this.

Oh I agree, Anne Sophia to John it is. I might exp,ore tge dowager queens more actually, see what options there are for Mary of Modena.

 

[Valena]

Unlike Catherine, Mary of Modena seems to have nothing keeping her in Britain... and a problem at her Modenese home:

He became duke at the age of two. His mother, pious and rigorous, served as his regent until 1674, filling state offices with clerics under the advice of her Jesuit confessor Father Garimberti. When she left to accompany the princess to England, he assumed control at the age of fourteen, and was so transformed in the free and easy company of his cousin principe Cesare Ignazio d'Este, that on her return the dowager duchess withdrew from court.

Francesco's foreign policy was affected by the requirements of Louis XIV, his sister's patron after 1688, but he resisted French attempts to interfere in the duchies. A Franco Modenese alliance was proposed with Francesco and a Princess of the House of Lorraine named Béatrice Hiéronyme was the eldest daughter of François Marie de Lorraine, Prince de Lillebonne. The marriage never materialised and instead, he married Margherita Maria Farnese.

Her brother is unmarried, reputedly debauched and without positive influence.
I think she'll leave for Modena, since nothing actually keeps her in England, and would try to arrange suitable match for her brother.

Given Anne disliked her stepmother OTL, she would not keep her in England for longer than needed.

 

[VVD0D95]

Unlike Catherine, Mary of Modena seems to have nothing keeping her in Britain... and a problem at her Modenese home:

Her brother is unmarried, reputedly debauched and without positive influence.
I think she'll leave for Modena, since nothing actually keeps her in England, and would try to arrange suitable match for her brother.

Given Anne disliked her stepmother OTL, she would not keep her in England for longer than needed.

Alright this is very true. I do have a question re Modena, can the duchy be inherited by women, or is it purely male only inheritance.

 

[Valena]

Male only, hence Mary did not inherit OTL after her brother's death and Rinaldo d'Este had to leave the Church and remarry.

 

[VVD0D95]

Male only, hence Mary did not inherit OTL after her brother's death and Rinaldo d'Este had to leave the Church and remarry.

Ah okay, this raises problems for some future issues I have

 

[Valena]

I think that between 1687 and 1690 Mary would be seeking suitable wife for her brother. In OTL he married too late to sire a heir, but even extra year or two of advantage may help the Modenese succession (Mary being a possible regent).

 

[VVD0D95]

I think that between 1687 and 1690 Mary would be seeking suitable wife for her brother. In OTL he married too late to sire a heir, but even extra year or two of advantage may help the Modenese succession (Mary being a possible regent).

Hmm interesting a possible lady from the house of Lorraine then?

 

[Valena]

Mlle de Lillebonne/Mlle de Commercy (like it was in A&D) may work, yes.

 

[Valena]

“King Louis had also ordered the French fleet to engage our and the Dutch fleets. There was a battle at Beachy Head, which resulted in a stalemate, all sides lost three ships of the line, and our fleet was able to retreat within good order, whilst the French fleet had to withdraw after a storm prevented proper pursuit.” Sunderland responded.

Anne looked down at the documents on the table, she wanted naval supremacy more than anything against the French, and whilst she did not have that right now, perhaps with time she would. Dartmouth had already said that ships would be built with the extra funds that Godolphin had found. She picked up a document that the Lord Chamberlain had given her that morning. “We see that Parliament has been discussing the issue of the farmers and the issue of the corn tax that was discussed during the reign of our father. What decisions have they reached?” The tax on corn had been a contentious issue, and her father had prevented it from truly being discussed through dissolving Parliament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_FitzRoy,_1st_Duke_of_Grafton
A possible successful Royal Admiral material, since the engagement where he was killed OTL did not happen TTL. Maybe not to degree of success Prince Rupert/Duke of York were, but he died too young OTL, and with proper tutelage he may be good, not great but good.
While I can see Anne trying to distant herself from debauched legacy of her father/uncle, some of her half-siblings/cousins may still reach high posts.
Berwick is one such candidate. Grafton, maybe St Albans/Lennox make another one.

 

[VVD0D95]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_FitzRoy,_1st_Duke_of_Grafton
A possible successful Royal Admiral material, since the engagement where he was killed OTL did not happen TTL. Maybe not to degree of success Prince Rupert/Duke of York were, but he died too young OTL, and with proper tutelage he may be good, not great but good.
While I can see Anne trying to distant herself from debauched legacy of her father/uncle, some of her half-siblings/cousins may still reach high posts.
Berwick is one such candidate. Grafton, maybe St Albans/Lennox make another one.

I .ike the thought of that perhaps Grafton can learn from Dartmouth