A better Imperial Japanese Navy

the absolute need of a 37 or 40mm flak asap
Can’t. Japan doesn’t have the resources to design one themselves and in 1936 there isn’t a gun on the market in that caliber better than the Type 96 except the Bofors - and the Japanese proved incapable of building the gun to a reasonable quality.

For God's sake build a lot more merchant shipping!
Can’t. Japanese shipbuilders were being outcompeted by European, even despite massive government subsidies. That’s a big reason so much of their trade was carried on foreign shippers.
 
Can’t. Japan doesn’t have the resources to design one themselves and in 1936 there isn’t a gun on the market in that caliber better than the Type 96 except the Bofors - and the Japanese proved incapable of building the gun to a reasonable quality.


Can’t. Japanese shipbuilders were being outcompeted by European, even despite massive government subsidies. That’s a big reason so much of their trade was carried on foreign shippers.
I'll echo your sentiment that "Just make more and better things" and "Just get a better economy" is the least creative suggestions for improvement compared to shifts in priorities, leadership, or doctrine.
 
If Japan can run on higher-octane gas, then the horsepower is there to put a radio in the A6M, protection in the G4M, all that good stuff.
What the A6M needed from the very start was a nice good 1200 horsepower engine like the Kinsei. Maneuverability is the least important attribute for a fighter plane; speed is life.
 
What would you do/ what could be done to improve the Imperial Japanese navy in time for its war efforts?
keep in mind they will stay within OTL's budget.
If it helps this is a link to the last thread on the subject.
 
If it helps this is a link to the last thread on the subject.
I was not aware of this thread. Thanks
 
Fund a large foreign propaganda department aimed at getting the west to become apathetic with regards to China, hopefully to get a "who cares" response to salami slicing it. That shouldn't be an IJN thing, but it is probably the best chance of achieving Japan's geostrategic goals

Realistically most of these suggestions might make things worse. None of them have the potential to win the war for Japan, and might drag things out long enough for the 1945 rice harvest failure to make things much worse. Realistically you want to with hindsight build the IJN to fight and win a big decisive battle immediately, and if that fails to get a victory to then lose as fast as possible if you can't get the government to sue for peace
 
Let the Americans fortify whichever Pacific islands they like. Much like with the Washington Treaty threads where we know real financial limits will cut spending anyway, we know the US doesn't really want to take the time and effort to fortify the east when they are pulling out of the Philippines anyway. The pay off for Japan is that they do want to fortify the approaches to the first island chain, and with a bit of luck the army will pay for it. Sure, they will get island hopped in the end. But better bases means better support for aircraft. Recon. Supplies. Two decades to build up a stock of ammunition rather than a few years.
 
Yeah. People forget that torpedoes weren't guided. Yes it made massive damage, but first it had to hit... and dozens up dozens up dozens failed...
That got me curious so I googled the cost of the Long Lance (20,000 yen) and the battleship Yamato (250 million yen). That's 12,500 torpedoes per battleship. Non-dud torpedo hit rates I don't think were better than about 3% at the best of times, which if so would translate to about 375 hits for a number of torpedoes equal to the expense of a Yamato.
 
That got me curious so I googled the cost of the Long Lance (20,000 yen) and the battleship Yamato (250 million yen). That's 12,500 torpedoes per battleship. Non-dud torpedo hit rates I don't think were better than about 3% at the best of times, which if so would translate to about 375 hits for a number of torpedoes equal to the expense of a Yamato.
Yeah... note that you can't really make such a comparison. If you want to compare, check something like "main batery shells required to sink a BB vs torpedoes". One torpedo can, with very little luck, ruin the day even of a BB (hello Bismarck!). Italian torpedoes would regulary send RN ships, even cruisers, straight into dry dock with single hits (italian torps were very good). You can hit a BB with a dozen heavy shells or more and it will still keep floating and even (poorly) fighting. You hit it with 2-3 torps and it's bye bye HMS Barham... 1v1 a torp is better than a shell. The problem is scoring the hits. And that's where the IJN failed: they were far too optimistic in their assessment. They saw the torpedo as not just a very dangerous weapon but war-winning one almost on it's own...
 
Many accounts of the 1942 battles describe these torpedoes prematurely detonating after running the arming distance or detonating once they crossed the target's wake. For example, it was estimated that about a third of the torpedoes launched at the Battle of the Java Sea (Sea Engagement off Surabaya) either prematured or detonated on wakes. An investigation by Cdr. Takedai Takashi of the Navy Technical Department, who was in charge of torpedoes at that time, found that approximately half of the torpedo fuzes returned for examination from warships involved in this battle would activate at pressures much lower than those specified. However, torpedo fuzes examined at the naval arsenals and at military supply departments worked properly. Further investigation found that the main cause for the self-destruction was that the torpedo crews on the ships themselves were resetting the fuzes to a lower level in a misguided effort to ensure detonation. Post-war, Rear Admiral of Engineering Ōyagi Shizuo, an authority on the Type 93 torpedoes (and whose report on British torpedoes initiated the development of the Japanese Oxygen-fueled torpedo), remarked in his recollections: "It was a matter of eternal regret that we had provided each vessel with a sensitivity adjuster for the fuzes."

Also from Navweaps: http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-067.php

Many of the early night actions had 13% or so hit rates ie 1 hit from a 8 torp DD salvo. The Type93 in addition to large warhead was extremely fast which was probably it's best feature in a short range night action, not the long range salvo firing before a fleet action.
 
Dorknaught how will no Siberian intervention allow Japan to build 18 to 20 Nagatos
I was pointing out the cost equivalent. They had capacity to have 4 ships on slips at any one time although Nagato was built in a drydock so there is little extra capacity. Limiting factor will be turrets, guns and armour plate. I'm sure private industry will jump in if the Navy throws more money and you may have 6 'post-Jutland' ships complete by Nov 1921. In the years ahead, you can lay down more Kamikaze and Mutsuki class destroyers and a greater number of Type A cruisers, perhaps skipping the 5000ton type in the late WW1 period for 'Ocean Scouts' proto-Furutakas perhaps 10 or 11 by the early 1920s.
 
You realize that you are designing a post Aircraft fleet starting decades before aircraft become dominate.
Japan can never build enough BBs to outpace the US.
It is the Germany vs GB pre WW1 all over again. But worse, as the US is much more powerfull economicly vs Japan the GB was vs Germany.
All you are doing is arranging deckchair on the Titanic.
While the Super battleships had issues at least they where an attempt to think outside the box.

If you just change the design of BBs slightly Japan is still going to end ip in the exact situation it was in OTL.
Perhaps if you start building as many Aircraft carrier's as you possible can as soon as you can then at least to start Japan will have a better chance early in the war. Of course if Japan goes on a building binge then the US will counter and once again you are off yo the races.
And you still have the problem that pretty much no one realized on December 6 that BBs were no longer of major use.

So you really need to set a goal that is within reach. But the best you can do is slightly extendcthe war by having a bit better Japanese navy. If you go to big you simply spark a US response and then you are back in the same boat.
We see this a lot where someone wants only one side change and somehow thinks that the other side will not change its course. When all things are connected.
So remember whatever Japan does the US will respond to one degree or another. So you need to find somethingvthat the US cant respond to if you want any meaningful change.
 
Lay down 4 Nagatos in 1916-17 rather than 2 Nagato and 2 Tosas 3 years later. At the WNT this is 70% not 60%.
If you think the US and Britain would allow that I have a bridge to sell you. OTL the Japanese had to burn all their political capital just to keep Mutsu.

I'm sure private industry will jump in if the Navy throws more money and you may have 6 'post-Jutland' ships complete by Nov 1921.
What private industry? The Japanese shipbuilding industry had just barely gotten off the ground in the late 1910s, it was in no shape to be helping out more than it did.
 
Can’t have warcrimes if there’s no wars eh? :V
Or nice fat lands with nice juicy resources... /flashbacks of Civilization III
What private industry? The Japanese shipbuilding industry had just barely gotten off the ground in the late 1910s, it was in no shape to be helping out more than it did.
Pretty much this. Any increase in numbers will have to be very limited. OTL, even the tank industry suffered with the drains of limited steel to the navy. Pretty sure one could increase the numbers of convoy escorts and maybe destroyers, but cruisers (specially the beasts the IJN loved) and BBs?... doubt it.
 
The problem is scoring the hits. And that's where the IJN failed: they were far too optimistic in their assessment. They saw the torpedo as not just a very dangerous weapon but war-winning one almost on it's own...

A typical IJN warship might be able to fire 8 Long Lances with 8 reloads, so a typical destroyer squadron of eight ships might come packing 128 torpedoes. Those 128 torpedoes cost just 1/100th of a Yamato Class battleship, but could be expected to do more damage in a battle than could a Yamato. More damage on 1/100th the cost sounds like the right direction to me.
 
Random thought on IJN aerial arm from late 1930s on:
- A trained pilot is worth it's weight in gold, an experienced pilot doubly so. It would be a prudent thing to protect these sacks of gold while they are in aircraft, and, in case they get downed but survive, the search and rescue service should be around, so start making one.
- Maneuverable but slow-ish fighter will have a harder time to kill enemy bombers when compared with a fast and well-armed fighter. The fast and well armed fighter will be able to catch enemy fighters.
- In order to have fast, well armed fighters with good protection, engines required will need all the help they can get. 850-1050 HP engines will not cut it, so inform Nakajima and Mitsubishi that the more powerful engines will be used on fighters, talk 1200 HP and more. So no mainstream use for the Sakae and Zuisei engine families, focus instead on Ha 41, Kasei and Kinsei.
- Don't allow to Aichi to buy the licence for DB 601A, have them make Japanese radials instead.
- No bespoke floatplanes where a 'normal' 2-seater with floats can be a solution.
- No bespoke recon aircraft, like the Gekko and Saiun, focus on making better fighters instead.
- No bespoke land-based fighters, aim to land base the carrier-capable fighters instead.
 
Top