13 colonies become four nations.

PJ Norris · Mar 20, 2005

What's going on with Louisiana? After being taken from Spain, Napoleon would not be too keen on selling it to a single American state (state's maybe? Joint purchase?). Let's say Napoleon keeps Louisiana, flees there after his defeat in Europe and is smashed by Wellington at New Orleans. Then all of the American states would have their backs to the sea and surrounded on two fronts by British. No doubt the French Louisianese would want independance sooner or later - but imagine the effect on the Americans at the time.

I know this ain't on Louisiana but you know the domino effect ...

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

I fixed the colorful one to match this one a bit more.

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

PJ Norris said:
What's going on with Louisiana? After being taken from Spain, Napoleon would not be too keen on selling it to a single American state (state's maybe? Joint purchase?). Let's say Napoleon keeps Louisiana, flees there after his defeat in Europe and is smashed by Wellington at New Orleans. Then all of the American states would have their backs to the sea and surrounded on two fronts by British. No doubt the French Louisianese would want independance sooner or later - but imagine the effect on the Americans at the time.

I know this ain't on Louisiana but you know the domino effect ...

Well Napolen gets exiled there more than flees. In return for his life he'll give up Northern Loiusanne. The Carolinas will probably take Georgia by force, and later take Loisanne or Lousianne will take Carolinain Territories.. I forsee an independant Western Michigan, maybe calling it New Quebec....

PJ Norris · Mar 20, 2005

The Carolinas would take Georgia and even Florida. There would be a Caro-Louisian War eventually but it would be inconclusive and Carolina would only walk away with Mississippi. Yet the Republic of Louisiana would take most of New Spain (Britain or Russia could take California). Possibly Carolina immigrants could set up Texas but likely or not it'd be a Protectorate or taken by Louisiana.
New Quebec would be filled with French Quebecians who would want a nation and identity of their own and they'd be friendly with a moderately powerful Louisiana. The (presumably) industrial and agrian French speaking nations would be a powerful alliance later on the continent. We really need another map.

David S Poepoe · Mar 20, 2005

Othniel said:
Well for now on this is my OTL reference map. Nobody ever explained how Florida went back to Spain....

Well, then consult an encyclopedia. Going the extra mile to figure out something this simple isn't going to take long. Florida was ceded to Spain by Britain under the terms of the Treaty of Paris ending the American Revolutionary War.

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

I'm messing with the treaty of Paris already. Maybe France back the Americas keeping Florida, and in turn France is allowed West Florida.

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

That being said, Georgia won't last long. By the 1830s it should be absorbed by the Carolinas, Loiusanne, Missouri and New Quebec will have establized themselves, Oregon will be over run with Russian Settlers, and Northern California will theirs as well. Meanwhile New Spain will split with Mexico.

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

After doing my research Vermont didn't exsist as one of the original 13, therefore they did not retify anything. Instead Federal troops stormed it and took the Providence of Vermont by force.

Aussey · Mar 20, 2005

Othniel said:
After doing my research Vermont didn't exsist as one of the original 13, therefore they did not retify anything. Instead Federal troops stormed it and took the Providence of Vermont by force.

Actually, in the 1780s the Republic of Vermont, formerly Republic of New Connecitcut, decided to join the Union with the approval of the Vermontese President...look it up on Wikipedia, type in Republic of Vermont...

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

Aussey said:
Actually, in the 1780s the Republic of Vermont, formerly Republic of New Connecitcut, decided to join the Union with the approval of the Vermontese President...look it up on Wikipedia, type in Republic of Vermont...

It wasn't war with Britian at the time of the Articles of Confederation. I could easily say they weren't given recongintion as a country and were estenstilly absorbed into New Hampshire and New York.

David S Poepoe · Mar 20, 2005

Othniel said:
I'm messing with the treaty of Paris already. Maybe France back the Americas keeping Florida, and in turn France is allowed West Florida.

What the French want or do isn't important since its the Spanish - not the French that got Florida. I doubt the Spanish are going to give in on the Florida point since they want something for having come in on the winning side.

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

David S Poepoe said:
What the French want or do isn't important since its the Spanish - not the French that got Florida. I doubt the Spanish are going to give in on the Florida point since they want something for having come in on the winning side.

When did it become Spanish? You said durning the treaty of Paris. In this timeline the spanish are not envoled in this peace talk, nor did Spain get Florida back.

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

Or we could try it your way in which it lands up in Carolina's hands anyway. I think I'll let Vermont remain independant instead, Carolinas taking georgia as the Reformed Confederacy, while the Confed of New England, and the USA are formed.

JHPier · Mar 20, 2005

How did Haiti not get independent?

Othniel · Mar 20, 2005

Napolen was exiled to North America, along with a small portion of his supporters. It is possible that they avioded the slave revolt with more men here.

JHPier · Mar 20, 2005

Othniel said:
Napolen was exiled to North America, along with a small portion of his supporters. It is possible that they avioded the slave revolt with more men here.

The slave revolt started and was won by L'Ouverture well before Napoleon came to power.

Othniel · Mar 21, 2005

JHPier said:
The slave revolt started and was won by L'Ouverture well before Napoleon came to power.

WHOOPS! I didn't remeber the year....

David S Poepoe · Mar 21, 2005

Othniel said:
When did it become Spanish? You said durning the treaty of Paris. In this timeline the spanish are not envoled in this peace talk, nor did Spain get Florida back.

So the POD is before 1783. The Treaty of Paris ending the American Revolutionary War was signed, in OTL, on September 3 1783. So it would appear that the Spanish were not involved in the American Revolutionary War as they were in OTL. Florida was a Spanish possession until 1763 when the Spanish exchanged it in return for Cuba which the English had seized the year before. Spanish forces occupied West Florida in 1779 during the ARW and was surrendered to the Spanish in 1781. Spain got East Florida in 1783.

Othniel · Mar 21, 2005

In fact that helps out greatly.

PJ Norris · Mar 21, 2005

If there is still Mexico, there should be a Louisian-Russo-Anglo joint invasion to partition the instable region or buy it all up too the present border. And I'm still calling for an independant French Texas. It'd be like the land grabs in Africa, probably in the mid-late 1800's.