A political map of South America of my TL during the 1930s. Blue nations are functioning democracies, Yellow nations are flawed democracies, and Maroon nations are dictatorial states. Note that Paraguay was a dictatorial republic until the return of democracy in 1934.
Map Thread VIII
- Thread starter Burton K Wheeler
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That's nice in the same way that the Conservative party or Imperialism is nice
Ah, well that's certainly an intresting turn of events.
All faiths get fanatics. The Tibetans were quite aggressive for a long while and the Mongols never let their religion get in the way of a good invasion. They are much nicer conquerors than the Mongols of OTL though.
Cool beans. There ought to be more city maps in this thread. I feel like there could have been a little more information in the map, though.
Are we talking Buddhism? I was under the impression that Mongols didn't convert en masse until Qing times...
Bruce
This one is based on an outline from a post on Ken Hite's (GURPS alternate worlds contributor) site http://princeofcairo.livejournal.com/
This is a world where Burr does end up taking over Mexico (to quote Hite, "British gold, Spanish fecklessness, criollo opportunism, if you're wondering how it might have worked") and ends up becoming Emperor out of frustration with the effort of making democracy work in Mexico.
Flash forward a century and some change, and we have a world where the US broke up as a result, and the three biggest powers are Napoleonic France, the Russian Empire, and a Britain which managed to stave off Napoleonic invasion but was pushed off the continent, and has made up for that by expanding its empire even further than OTL and making a concerted effort to develop heavy industry (for military muscle) in its colonies far beyond anything OTL. Mexico (which has seen political stablity, if of a somewhat repressive sort) and far more emigration than OTL, is, along with Japan, an important second-rank power. The US, poorer, more militarized (it has _three_ unfriendly borders) than OTL, and politically messed up to boot, is largely isolated internationally, and barely counts as "second level".
There have been wars and military clashes, but no full-blown apocalyptic multi-nation wars on the scale of OTL 1914-1918, but this may change. Russian industrial growth is threatening to upset the balance of power. Meanwhile, the Ottoman Empire, where the Sultan is now a powerless figurehead for a Committee-for-Union-and-Progress-like military dictatorship, is suffering internal unrest: and neither the French, the Russians nor the British wants the others to hog all that oil...
Bruce
This is a world where Burr does end up taking over Mexico (to quote Hite, "British gold, Spanish fecklessness, criollo opportunism, if you're wondering how it might have worked") and ends up becoming Emperor out of frustration with the effort of making democracy work in Mexico.
Flash forward a century and some change, and we have a world where the US broke up as a result, and the three biggest powers are Napoleonic France, the Russian Empire, and a Britain which managed to stave off Napoleonic invasion but was pushed off the continent, and has made up for that by expanding its empire even further than OTL and making a concerted effort to develop heavy industry (for military muscle) in its colonies far beyond anything OTL. Mexico (which has seen political stablity, if of a somewhat repressive sort) and far more emigration than OTL, is, along with Japan, an important second-rank power. The US, poorer, more militarized (it has _three_ unfriendly borders) than OTL, and politically messed up to boot, is largely isolated internationally, and barely counts as "second level".
There have been wars and military clashes, but no full-blown apocalyptic multi-nation wars on the scale of OTL 1914-1918, but this may change. Russian industrial growth is threatening to upset the balance of power. Meanwhile, the Ottoman Empire, where the Sultan is now a powerless figurehead for a Committee-for-Union-and-Progress-like military dictatorship, is suffering internal unrest: and neither the French, the Russians nor the British wants the others to hog all that oil...
Bruce
Kaiphranos
Donor
Interesting, as always. Reminds me a bit of "The House Of Many Worlds," by one Sam Merwin, which I read over the summer--although there Burr ends up running the *US, and his heirs are opposed by some sort of Empire of Mexico...
In 1507 Bartolomeo d'Alviano was killed leading his Venetian forces against Emperor Maximilian in the early part of the War of the Holy League. With Alviano dead, Max and his army routed the defenders and marched on to Venice, where after a lengthy siege the Republic fell. In 1513 Vladislas II of Hungary was killed during the Ottoman Invasion of Hungary and Maximilian moved to “defend” Hungary from Selim I’s invasion force. The Ottoman-Habsburg War turned most of Hungary and Croatia into a battle zone, but in after Selim caught dysentery and died during the campaign. The Habsburg forces took advantage of the near civil war like state within the Ottoman Empire and an attack by the Persians in the east to advance against the Ottomans. After Suleiman I consolidated his rule over the Ottoman Empire he made peace with the Habsburgs, acknowledging Habsburg control over Hungary, Croatia (including what we call Bosnia). The Ottomans redirected their war machine against the Persians and the Egyptians.
Maximilian’s grandson Charles the magnificent ruled over the largest Empire in Europe, and was able to consolidate Habsburg control over Italy during the Great French War. With France defeated the Habsburg’s great enemy, The Ottoman Empire, struck back. Suleiman moved to retake Hungary and Croatia, but the Habsburg-Persian Alliance once again forced the ottomans to fight a two front war. Though Suleiman would become famous for his conquest of Egypt and Mesopotamia, his ultimate failure against the Habsburgs in Europe led to the loss of Wallachia and Moldavia. For the Habsburgs everything was great, they dominated the HRE, France and the Ottoman Empire didn’t really pose a great threat, and papal reform led to a mostly unified Catholic Empire. Unfortunately the Empire was just too large and Charles divided the Empire (the critical difference here being that the Austrian branch retained the Netherlands).
In 1650, as the English Civil war raged, the German Habsburgs decided to try and make a run at Constantinople. The massive, multi ethnic Empire invaded Ottoman Thrace and laid siege to the city for months, before the death of the Emperor forced the army to retreat. Emperor Otto succeeded his father and made peace with the Ottomans, gaining minor territorial concessions. The Habsburgs never tried to take Constantinople again, Holy War was becoming unpopular, the nobles liked making money and money came from the east. The Habsburg Empire and the Ottomans have continued their fight, though this time they duel in the Indian Ocean. Having seen the Franco-Spanish conquest of the Philippines and the Habsburg conquest of Indonesia a number of the sultanates have took to the Ottomans like a fish to water.
While Spain became a superpower and the Austrian Habsburgs eventually brought Poland-Lithuania into the Eastern Doman the Spanish Habsburgs would eventually go extinct igniting the war of Spanish succession. A brief affair, the war saw Spain and France enter a personal Union that has lasted from that time to the present and remains strong. The Italian peninsula remained under the power of the Habsburgs who had moved to Amsterdam, the richest part of the Empire. With a wealthy and unified Europe, industrialization began several decades earlier than OTL and the Habsburg Netherlands are leading the way. By 1802 the independence of the various states of the HRE has largely become political fiction; the Habsburgs dominate Central and Eastern Europe so completely at this point that it would take an alliance of Franco-Spain, the Commonwealth, Sweden, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire to unseat them. Since most of these power hate each other as much as they hate the Habsburgs this will likely not happen anytime soon.
The Mughal Empire has begun to rot and fester and the Europeans have begun to worm their way in, which had brought the Ottoman Empire and the Mughal Empire closer together. The Mughal don’t want to fall into European domination and the Ottomans don’t want to see the Franco-Spanish Empire, or the Commonwealth dominate all of the sub-continent of Hindustan.
The Habsburgs have begun to colonize Austrasia (Australia), though they have found that the Turks had visited the island continent before them.
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Maximilian’s grandson Charles the magnificent ruled over the largest Empire in Europe, and was able to consolidate Habsburg control over Italy during the Great French War. With France defeated the Habsburg’s great enemy, The Ottoman Empire, struck back. Suleiman moved to retake Hungary and Croatia, but the Habsburg-Persian Alliance once again forced the ottomans to fight a two front war. Though Suleiman would become famous for his conquest of Egypt and Mesopotamia, his ultimate failure against the Habsburgs in Europe led to the loss of Wallachia and Moldavia. For the Habsburgs everything was great, they dominated the HRE, France and the Ottoman Empire didn’t really pose a great threat, and papal reform led to a mostly unified Catholic Empire. Unfortunately the Empire was just too large and Charles divided the Empire (the critical difference here being that the Austrian branch retained the Netherlands).
In 1650, as the English Civil war raged, the German Habsburgs decided to try and make a run at Constantinople. The massive, multi ethnic Empire invaded Ottoman Thrace and laid siege to the city for months, before the death of the Emperor forced the army to retreat. Emperor Otto succeeded his father and made peace with the Ottomans, gaining minor territorial concessions. The Habsburgs never tried to take Constantinople again, Holy War was becoming unpopular, the nobles liked making money and money came from the east. The Habsburg Empire and the Ottomans have continued their fight, though this time they duel in the Indian Ocean. Having seen the Franco-Spanish conquest of the Philippines and the Habsburg conquest of Indonesia a number of the sultanates have took to the Ottomans like a fish to water.
While Spain became a superpower and the Austrian Habsburgs eventually brought Poland-Lithuania into the Eastern Doman the Spanish Habsburgs would eventually go extinct igniting the war of Spanish succession. A brief affair, the war saw Spain and France enter a personal Union that has lasted from that time to the present and remains strong. The Italian peninsula remained under the power of the Habsburgs who had moved to Amsterdam, the richest part of the Empire. With a wealthy and unified Europe, industrialization began several decades earlier than OTL and the Habsburg Netherlands are leading the way. By 1802 the independence of the various states of the HRE has largely become political fiction; the Habsburgs dominate Central and Eastern Europe so completely at this point that it would take an alliance of Franco-Spain, the Commonwealth, Sweden, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire to unseat them. Since most of these power hate each other as much as they hate the Habsburgs this will likely not happen anytime soon.
The Mughal Empire has begun to rot and fester and the Europeans have begun to worm their way in, which had brought the Ottoman Empire and the Mughal Empire closer together. The Mughal don’t want to fall into European domination and the Ottomans don’t want to see the Franco-Spanish Empire, or the Commonwealth dominate all of the sub-continent of Hindustan.
The Habsburgs have begun to colonize Austrasia (Australia), though they have found that the Turks had visited the island continent before them.
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You are correct. I'm very interested in the Buddhist theology of this world. No one has ever conquered under the name of buddhadharma, to say nothing of people who espoused buddhadharma but went about conquering and killing anyway.
Tibet was aggressive, but never attributed her conquests or wars to spreading buddhadharma or because "it was nicer to forcefully convert them."
The Yuan Dynasty officially endorsed the Sakya school of Tibetan Buddhism. When the Mongols were overthrown by the Ming and sent back to the steppe, they maintained traces of Sakya doctrine but went back to shamanism. It was roughly around the time of Queen Manduhai where native Mongol shamanism fused with the cult of Chinggis Khan and a rebirth of Tibetan Buddhism in Mongolia.
Depending on your definition of "conquering in the name of religion," the Mongol tribes who lived west of Qing control all sought to rebuild Chinggis' empire. The problem was none of them were direct descendants of the Borijin clan and thus, could not claim to be his descendant. Altan Khan (though he was not the first to try this idea) tried circumventing his biological difficulties by claiming he was the reincarnation of Chinggis Khan, but to do so had to obtain the blessing of a spiritual teacher. He called on Tibetan lama Sonam Gyatso who granted the request, naming Altan Khan the reincarnation of Chinggis Khan. Altan Khan granted Sonam Gyatso the title of Dalai Lama.
I could go on about the subject of Buddhism's relation to violence. Altan Khan never sought to rebuild the Mongol Empire so that he might convert it to Buddhism, and the theology in this universe seems sketchy, but I am interested.
Well, considering the POD was less than 150 years after Buddha and in the East Alexander the Great kept a stronger reputation than OTL as a philosopher first, conqueror second, there have been some significant butterflies. There's also so rumour of conquest for the sake of conquest with the vague excuse of spreading the teachings. They are also reasonably nice conquerors, at least compared to most.
Let's just say the DC universe got a whole lot more realistic and scarier.
The Grand War happened around 2011.
The Grand War happened around 2011.
Thanks! What kind of extra information? I'm up for suggestions...
I dunno. The highways could be numbered, the major parks highlighted, the neighbourhoods and suburbs named, things like that. As long as it doesn't get too cluttered with characters.
More adventures in this Romeless world! China and Korea fall to the Mongol-Tibetan-Indian invasion force. South East Asia is made officially a part of the Dharmic Union, but is effectively independent. Travelling west we see the birth of the Bolgar civilisation, which is amazed by Alexandrianism (somewhat like OTL Russians and Byzantium, only here they would have to claim something like the 24th Alexandria rather than the 3rd Rome ), while also raiding the extremities of the Persic empire. The Western Medd becomes a Saxon lake, though a fairly empty one as the Saxons care little for their navy, though they do begin an invasion of Britain. The Carthaginian refugees in West Africa unite the local kingdoms, which had grown to exist entirely from Carthaginian trade in the first place. The other refugees across the Atlantic and to the far south have long since lost contact with the motherland, but are doing reasonably well. Russyn culture also spreads a bit across the north European plain.
), while also raiding the extremities of the Persic empire. The Western Medd becomes a Saxon lake, though a fairly empty one as the Saxons care little for their navy, though they do begin an invasion of Britain. The Carthaginian refugees in West Africa unite the local kingdoms, which had grown to exist entirely from Carthaginian trade in the first place. The other refugees across the Atlantic and to the far south have long since lost contact with the motherland, but are doing reasonably well. Russyn culture also spreads a bit across the north European plain.
Kaiphranos
Donor
For some reason I can't spot the transatlantic Carthaginians... What part of the Americas did they land in?
Kaiphranos
Donor
That would do it. Anyway, pretty neat--though I'm wondering how long that "Dharmic Empire" will hold together...
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