I like how Switzerland escaped to the Arabian peninsula and Anatolia to plot its revenge.
Map Thread XXII
- Thread starter Balkanized U.S.A
- Start date
The Indochina War
Despite being a core part of the reason as to why the Allies were victorious over Imperial Japan in World War II, Qing China began to deviate from both the USA and USSR in the aftermath of the great conflict. Having undergone nearly 80 years of reform in the aftermath of the Second Opium War, Qing China believed itself ready to set out a path independent of the other great powers once more. In the aftermath of World War II, it began to support decolonization attempts and was the very first nation to recognize the independence of India, Pakistan, Myanmar and Sri Lanka outside of Great Britain. Soon, the Qing came to blows over occupied Korea, with the pro-Qing monarchist government kicking the Pro-USSR Communists and pro-USA capitalists out of Korea during the Korean War with Qing aid. Nonetheless, tense ideas of nominal peace with Qing and their third way during the Cold War continued. But by the mid-1950s, Indochina became a rumbling issue. As France brutally held onto its most prestigious colony in the east, China began to rumble angrily, especially as Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian immigrants, seeking refuge from the French flooded the Chinese southern provinces. By 1959, the situation had become intolerable and Prime Minister Cai Chang demanded that the French vacate Indochina by September 1, 1960. When the French refused, on 4 September, Chinese troops crossed the border to invade French Indochina.
The Indochina War lasted almost 3 years, and saw most of the major cities of Indochina occupied by China and pro-Chinese local militias. By the end of the conflict, France only really controlled half of Cambodia. Some pockets in Vietnam and Laos were encircled and left to rot and starvation by the Chinese. Ironically both the USA and the USSR provided volunteers and aid to France, as both were threatened by Qing Chin's 'third way' movement during the Cold War. American and Soviet soldiers fought side by side one last time during the Indochina War. By the end of the conflict, as hundreds of thousands of French lay dying in Indochina, the French decided to surrender. Via the Accords of Bangkok signed on 27 April 1963, the French withdrew from Indochina, granting independence to the Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian monarchies. The Resurgence of the Golden Dragon had begun.
thoughts?
I think if China invaded Vietnam to "liberate" them, there's a 50% chance Vietnam sides with the French just out of spite for the Chinese.
That's honestly projecting our modern lens of the modern Sino-Vietnamese relationship. Historically, the Qing was the first dynasty after the Song to really enjoy a fruitful and well-maintained relationship with Vietnam, with the Vietnamese going so far as to allow the Qing Dynasty to rename their country from Dai Nam. The fact that the Qing went to war with the French to protect the Vietnamese during the 1880s historically led to a huge surge of sinophilic belief in the Indochinese regions for good reasons. The Qing crossing the border would more likely cause partisans to break out throughout the region behind French lines
Not really, Sino-Vietnamese relations have been strained most of the time for well over a thousand years, going back to when they regained their independence from China in the 10th century and fought back against Chinese invasions multiple times since, including failed Qing attempts to install a puppet emperor in the late 18th century.
Vietnamese historical texts don't really begrudge the Chinese on the Tay Son Succession Dispute. Even amidst that, Dai Viet historical texts continue to mention Qing China as their best ally as Chinese ships shooed off French ships away from both Nguyen and Tay Son ships and regions in the South China Sea. They also allowed the Jiaqing Emperor to rename their country to the modern iteration of Vietnam and requested Chinese aid against the French frequently, which the Chinese did support, to the best of their abilities, funding and furnishing the Black Flag Army to the best of their abilities, and went to war with France in the 1880s on the premise of protecting Chinese concessions and liberating Vietnam. During the 1890s and even into the Chinese Civil War, Sinophilic beliefs stemming from good feelings towards the Qing Dynasty is written even by Ho Chi Minh himself.
More or less 👍Although the backstory I'm working on is quite a bit more complicated than that. The alt *SGW alliance systems might not be what one expects either...
*Hetmany (unrelated to the English word "man") - and yes, but not one after the other, and not particularly closely related.
No, similar to OTL they were given a foreign monarch, although in this case from a cadet branch (sept) of Kennedy, the ruling dynasty of the UKSII, rather than Wittelsbach or Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. I need to work down the family tree before settling on what that cadet branch is called, as I've only made it to 1333 thus far.
(TTL Kennedy incidentally has nothing to do with OTL Kennedy; OTL Kennedy is the anglicisation of Ua Cennétig, while TTL Kennedy is the anglicisation of Cináedach, lit. "Kenneth-ish", which is supposed to highlight the descent of the UKSII royal family from Kenneth MacAlpin, the 9th-century King of Dal Riada and King of Picts)
Yes, and indeed TTL's Rudolf IV Habsburg still does manage to get elected Emperor, and King Alexander II of Scotland and Ireland ends up marrying a daughter of his in 1294; however, this is a one-hit wonder and no other Habsburg ever becomes Holy Roman Emperor again. Nor does the dynasty accrue the vast swathes of lands/titles they did IOTL, though they do still end up with Austria.
ITTL, their Austria was elevated from a Duchy to a Grand Duchy in the late 15th century, and then to a Kingdom in the Imperial Recess of 1712 which implemented mediatisation/consolidation of territories and elevated all of the resulting agglomerations to Kingdoms if they weren't already, with the exception of republican Venice. So the states you see delineated on the map are, roughly from SW to NE, the Kingdom of Burgundy, Kingdom of Savoy, Republic of Venice, Kingdom of Swabia, Kingdom of Bavaria, Kingdom of Franconia, Kingdom of Saxony (imperial title), Kingdom of Hesse, Kingdom of Brunswick, Kingdom of Brandenburg, and Kingdom of Denmark.
Which dynasty ruled the most lands in Europe ITTL?
What caused the Imperial Recess of 1712?
Also, what kind of government does the Dutch Union have?
I've posted my third and final Same-Sex Issues map over in the Political Maps Thread for anyone who wants to see and comment on it over there.
Looking Back from 1945 - Factions of WW2 in Altera
And another map to build the lore further for Altera's WW2 era. The map will contribute directions to help guide some of our fellow travellers who are trying to produce a HOI4 Altera mod...
This map shows how the Second World War war played out from the perspective of the Society of Nations (SoN), who have more teeth than the analagous League of Nations did in OTL. In ATL, the SoN's measures for intervention, though not as mature as they will be by the end of the century, are enough to be activated so that a collective security mission is triggered when Germany invades Polony. Member states are compelled to either commit to the war effort with aid or directly form part of the coalition forces in the fight.
Neutrality is not an option for members of the SoN for collective security missions. States who were originally sympathetic to the Axis, but who wished to bide their time, ejected themselves out of the SoN and declared neutrality.
You can see that from the beginning of the war, there were a lot more problematic factions or alliances that the SoN could not contain, but as Germany alienated its former (pragmatic) allies in the Comintern Bloc, and as the Allies successfully curried a truce between the Comintern Bloc and Norway and White russia, the tide quickly reverses for the Axis.
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Nothing much, just an infographic on if the Self-Strengthening Movement actually succeeded, really well.
Thoughts?
Beautiful and detailed. No ide how plausible it is but who cares, it’s well thought out and well presented.
What’s the dark blue party at the bottom? It’s not in the legend. [edit: answered]
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I love how Argentina, my country, is very Italian in the Philippines embiggen, just as in OTL.
However, that's not the important thing to me. I wanted to thank you for being the person who inspired me to join this hobby (now I have paint.net and a computer of my own). Your maps of DeviantArt, with those of RoyalPsycho and QuantumBranching, made me love alternate history and its possibilities.
Also, I would like a little bit of advice from an expert. How do I make the borders look natural in a WorldA and MicroworldA (especially the ones that treat timelines with divergences in the 19th and 20th century)? In the sense that these don't depend only on rivers to look good, and take into account OTL world subdivisions, mountains, climate, etc. Which templates should I use and which things should I do?
Again, thank you for all your content all these years.
Emperor-of-New-Zealand
Kicked
That's the most illogical way to divide New Zealand I can even imagine. The Southern Alps cut along the South Island lengthways and were extraordinarily difficult for early settlers to cross. What sense is there in banding provinces east-to-west over the alps?