Julius Caesar lives 10 more years what do you think happened?

what do you think Caesar does

  • Julius Caesar achieves Alexander the Great levels of success

    Votes: 29 21.6%
  • the campaign is a success and adds more territory to Rome

    Votes: 65 48.5%
  • the campaign is a mixed bag he wins but he loses to in other areas

    Votes: 30 22.4%
  • he goes on it but it doesn't end well

    Votes: 4 3.0%
  • Caesar talks about the campaign but never does it

    Votes: 6 4.5%

  • Total voters
    134
people keep talking about him going on campaign against Dacia and The Parthian Empire I have read and watch conflicting ideas about how healthy he was at the time of his death.

but let's say he's healthy I just watched A video recently where someone said Julius Caesar would be able to subdue Dacia within 8 months and it made me laugh he could be stuck there three years even if Burebista is still assassinated (Burebista is kind of similar to vercingetorix for Dacia.) also in this video he said Caesar would come back to Rome for another Triumph after he subdued Dacia. for me that doesn't seem like Caesar considering he likes to have multiple Triumphs in a row not just one at a time

The Parthian Empire in there Second war against the Romans the Pompeian–Parthian invasion of 40 BC really didn't get anything out of it and Caesar was my much better General than Marc Anthony could Caesar avenge his friend Crassus death most likely but he is stuck there for quite a long time Cleopatra's most likely assisting with military assistance because Caesar gave her a Roman province already. I'm looking at maybe a five or more years in campaign there I find it hard that he pulls in Alexander the great though he probably takes territory but there's no way he's marching all the way to India. this could also be a complete failure as well like Toyotomi Hideyoshi invasion of Korea.

so what do you think do you think Caesar could pulling Alexander the Great?

video
 
If anyone could achieve Alexandre Magno levels of success, its Caio Julio César.

I think if he went all-in, he could definitively do it, or at the very least, ensure a Roman Mesopotamia.

Roman Iran would be hella interesting, but I doubt that is being kept long, logistics do not favour it. I find one or multiple Iranian client-states far more likely. Maybe if the Empire recentered into the East ealier.
 
If anyone could achieve Alexandre Magno levels of success, its Caio Julio César.

I think if he went all-in, he could definitively do it, or at the very least, ensure a Roman Mesopotamia.

Roman Iran would be hella interesting, but I doubt that is being kept long, logistics do not favour it. I find one or multiple Iranian client-states far more likely. Maybe if the Empire recentered into the East ealier.

A series of client states would make more sense, easier to play off various rival vassal-rulers than to have just one very powerful client that could easily kick Rome in the teeth if it ever suffers a setback.
 
A series of client states would make more sense, easier to play off various rival vassal-rulers than to have just one very powerful client that could easily kick Rome in the teeth if it ever suffers a setback.

The Romans may be able to take Mesopotamia and Azerbaijan as provinces, but I dont think client states will do much to protect these possessions. East/north of settled Persia is Central Asia, and if the steppes spit out a decent-sized horde then the little clients most likely won't be able to hold them off, or dispute their claiming of any Persian imperial titles. Unless Rome commits to a border at the Zagros it can never be totally safe from the East, and even then extending so far east may leave the borders with Arabia unpoliced.

An early conquest of Dacia and may even further expansion into Ukraine could be interesting-- not very defensible either, but having the lower Dnieper be Romance-speaking could influence post-Roman developments there.
 
I cast my vote for Alexander-level success, but I don’t think that means securing Roman dominance as far as the Indus. I think it means establishing Trajanic frontiers a century and a half early, and possibly reaching the Indus, but with no more permanence than his campaign in Britain. There’s no specific reason Caesar could not retrace Alexander’s campaigns, indeed, he’d be better suited to do so than Alexander himself was, with the benefit of hindsight and his own far superior political aptitude (we have precious little to judge Alexander’s political skill on, but Caesar was one of history’s greatest politicians, even if one does not count his military accomplishments).

While Persia and beyond may be divided between client kingdoms if he does achieve that, I see that situation lasting only as long as Caesar’s life. Even absent a power struggle after his death, its impractical to project power over those distances. My gut says that the best case scenario is that a friendly client king subsumes the others, so that when the region is reunified, there’s at least some peace until Rome and Persia begin fighting over Mesopotamia.
 
if Julius Caesar was able to do what Alexander the Great did and makes it back to Rome for a Triumph forget being made Rex he is going to be made a God.
 
First and foremost, Caesar was getting old. For starters, he was 55 when he died, and who knows how long these supposed campaigns would last due to unplanned setbacks and whatnot. Because of this, Caesar could potentially die in the midst of one of his campaigns due to various causes (Old Age, Sickness, Etc.), and the entire structure of command could collapse. Not to mention the logistical efforts for this supposed campaign through Parthia and Scythia would be nightmarish alone, not including potential harassment from hit-and-run Parthian armies. However, Caesar is an extremely talented general, and he never showed any real signs of a deteriorating mind, but keep in mind that Roman knowledge of the Far East was limited to the far eastern bits of Mesopotamia (perhaps a bit of Central Iran) so there is a high chance that components of his army could be lead astray due to poor navigation.

In short, there could be a very, very slim chance it could work, but there would be a multitude of factors working against them. I am well aware that Caesar was an extremely capable general, but remember that no army or commander is invincible, especially to the elements and nature itself.
 
First and foremost, Caesar was getting old. For starters, he was 55 when he died, and who knows how long these supposed campaigns would last due to unplanned setbacks and whatnot. Because of this, Caesar could potentially die in the midst of one of his campaigns due to various causes (Old Age, Sickness, Etc.), and the entire structure of command could collapse. Not to mention the logistical efforts for this supposed campaign through Parthia and Scythia would be nightmarish alone, not including potential harassment from hit-and-run Parthian armies. However, Caesar is an extremely talented general, and he never showed any real signs of a deteriorating mind, but keep in mind that Roman knowledge of the Far East was limited to the far eastern bits of Mesopotamia (perhaps a bit of Central Iran) so there is a high chance that components of his army could be lead astray due to poor navigation.

In short, there could be a very, very slim chance it could work, but there would be a multitude of factors working against them. I am well aware that Caesar was an extremely capable general, but remember that no army or commander is invincible, especially to the elements and nature itself.

Marcus Licinius Crassus 59 or 62 when he went on his campaign against The Parthian Empire so I think he's not too old to go on a campaign and I do agree these campaigns could last for years I find it difficult to believe he would actually make it back alive.


campaign through Scythia I think would not happen The Parthian Empire campaign will taking A extremely long time even with Egypt support and Caesar probably head back to Rome after it if he is still alive.
 
Another thing to keep in mind for a supposed Roman campaign is that the Parthians won't simply keel over and die at the sight of oncoming Roman Legions. Say what you want about the Parthians being decentralized and loosely organized, they knew how to fight back against Rome. While Caesar may be able to beat them back and seize some cities in Mesopotamia, there could be multiple Surena-Like generals we weren't aware of at the time due to a lack of knowledge on Parthian internal politics that could've given Caesar and his minions absolute hell throughout the East.
 
if Julius Caesar was able to do what Alexander the Great did and makes it back to Rome for a Triumph forget being made Rex he is going to be made a God.
On that note if he were to get back in this (wank?) scenario might get declared king like he always wanted and if so what would be the consequences of this not just in his remaining years, but long term seeing as his entire rule set precedent for Roman rulers even after his death.
 
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On that note if he were to get back in this (wank?) scenario might get declared king like he always wanted?
if so what would be the consequences of this long term?
I've been watching that dude's videos for years

he is made Rex if he does what Alexander the Great. not even Cicero would be able to stop that he is probably defined as a God in Rome there are probably small statues of him in the temple of Victoria and Venus.

he won't live long enough to enjoy it considering he has no hairs besides his son who is an Egyptian the Roman people an Senate would not accept his son .

Octavian if he is still loved by Caesar which I think Caesar was grooming him to be his successor until his death. there probably is no Roman Civil War though if he does with Alexander the Great did or at least has successful campaign let's say Caesar spends 10 years on campaign and then Returns to Roman an lives for 4 years as Rex so he dies around 30 BC to 29 BC

Octavian is probably console he also most likely served in the campaign against Dacia before being sent back to Rome to help keep Caesars control over the city

Mark Anthony is probably governor of Syria considering he's a capable General to keep the new client Kingdoms in order

Brutus is probably somewhere far away from Rome possibly also in the Middle East as a governor

Cicero is way too old and probably won't live much longer like Caesar

that's my best educated guess after that the butterflies are way too many and I can't even comprehend what's going to happen Caesar's son caesarion probably ends up getting killed somehow
 
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I know very little about this period of history, but would there have been an incentive for Caesar to push into Germania instead of going too deep into Parthia? Seems like it would be more readily achievable.
 
I know very little about this period of history, but would there have been an incentive for Caesar to push into Germania instead of going too deep into Parthia? Seems like it would be more readily achievable.
Not much as it is largely undeveloped so would yield less returns then it would cost to conquer it. It is likely to turn into a much larger version of the money sink that Britannia was, could rome conquer it probably, would it make back cost, not for a VARY long time.
 
Not much as it is largely undeveloped so would yield less returns then it would cost to conquer it. It is likely to turn into a much larger version of the money sink that Britannia was, could rome conquer it probably, would it make back cost, not for a VARY long time.

Well, you could still end up with more defensible borders, and ensure the Rhine isn't compromised by every invading army because there's a buffer zone in front. So there's a military benefit even if the economic benefits aren't there yet.
 
Oh boy. Finally, an outlet for the unhealthy amount of thought I've put into this exact idea. Buckle up everyone, this is gonna be a long-winded one. Let's get to it.

but let's say he's healthy I just watched A video recently where someone said Julius Caesar would be able to subdue Dacia within 8 months and it made me laugh he could be stuck there three years even if Burebista is still assassinated

While 8 months certainly seems silly, I think there are two things to consider. First, the "conquest of Gaul", even though its completion took something like nine years, the latter two-thirds of that was spent mostly on consolidating what was already won. All of Gaul was more-or-less under Caesar's control by the time of his first crossing of the Rhine. He had established Rome as a power broker and peacekeeper (by intervening in the disputes between the Helvetii and Aedui and between the Suebi and the Sequani) and effectively stamped out those opposed to him (during his campaigns against the Nervii and Veneti), and by 56 BCE, he was effectively campaigning in Germany and Britain to protect what was already won, and any conflict with the Gauls thereafter took the form of securing control over the incongruous Gallic leadership. Note that although the largest of the Gallic revolts ended at Alesia, there were intermittent rebellions in Gaul as late as the reign of Vespasian, yet we do not say that the complete conquest of Gaul took an entire century because the bulk of the heavy lifting had been done before Alesia; and I would furthermore argue that the bulk of that work had been done by the time of Caesar's first invasion of Britain. Secondly, Caesar's war with Pharnaces was, at its outset, predicted to take a year at least. Pontus had been Rome's most formidable enemy since Carthage, and it was rightly thought that the threat posed by Pharnaces would tie down Caesar for a year or more. However, this war ended in something like five days. Did this have anything to do with Caesar's skill as a general? Probably not. The swift collapse of Pharnaces' position is probably more emblematic of how tenuous his own seizure of power was, and how it did not take much pressure to undo his brief attempt at regime consolidation. To apply this to Dacia, we have precious few sources that deal with the particulars of Burebista's regime, or how comparable the urbanization of Dacia was to that of Gaul (which is a crucial detail). Gaul was urbanized enough that it was easy for the Romans to take the reigns of power (like they did earlier in Africa, Macedon, Asia, and Syria), but not so centralized that they formed a coherent unified front against the invading Romans (like Macedon or Carthage had), which is probably why there was only one Gallic War, whereas there had been three Punic Wars, four Macedonian Wars, three Mithridatic Wars, etc. Whether or not the collapse of Dacia would be as rapid as that of Pharnaces, or whether consolidating control over Dacia would be as difficult as that of Gaul is impossible to say. My main point is that it's not too absurd to predict a short war of Dacian conquest, perhaps followed by a decade or more of consolidation, and the outcome probably has little to do with Caesar himself.

The Parthian Empire in there Second war against the Romans the Pompeian–Parthian invasion of 40 BC really didn't get anything out of it and Caesar was my much better General than Marc Anthony could Caesar avenge his friend Crassus death most likely but he is stuck there for quite a long time Cleopatra's most likely assisting with military assistance because Caesar gave her a Roman province already.

I have my doubts as to how much help Egypt would be able to provide in such a scenario. They had just recovered from a civil war, and Cleopatra's claim to power was perhaps not as secure as Caesar's following his civil war. A century or more of mismanagement by the Ptolemaic dynasty meant that Egypt was not approaching anything close to its full economic potential, and it would not do so until measures were taken by Augustus after the Battle of Actium. While it would certainly be better than nothing, I have doubts as to whether the contribution of Egypt would be any more decisive than the contribution of any other Roman ally like Galatia, for example.

An early conquest of Dacia and may even further expansion into Ukraine could be interesting-- not very defensible either, but having the lower Dnieper be Romance-speaking could influence post-Roman developments there.

However, Caesar is an extremely talented general, and he never showed any real signs of a deteriorating mind, but keep in mind that Roman knowledge of the Far East was limited to the far eastern bits of Mesopotamia (perhaps a bit of Central Iran) so there is a high chance that components of his army could be lead astray due to poor navigation.

Another thing to keep in mind for a supposed Roman campaign is that the Parthians won't simply keel over and die at the sight of oncoming Roman Legions. Say what you want about the Parthians being decentralized and loosely organized, they knew how to fight back against Rome. While Caesar may be able to beat them back and seize some cities in Mesopotamia, there could be multiple Surena-Like generals we weren't aware of at the time due to a lack of knowledge on Parthian internal politics that could've given Caesar and his minions absolute hell throughout the East.

It's also crucial to note that applying concepts like "defensible borders" to Roman strategic thinking by the time of Caesar is very anachronistic. This type of long-term strategic planning did not come about until the reign of Augustus at the earliest, and it was only possible because of the dynastic security of Augustus by his promotions of Agrippa, Tiberius, and Drusus in addition to his own careful and deliberate planning. Whether or not Caesar would be capable of carrying out the inglorious, slow, but necessary conquests of areas like Raetia, northern Spain, and Moesia that would be crucial to the defensibility of any Roman presence in Dacia is uncertain. We don't have a large enough sample of Caesar's own political ambitions to say for sure. We do know that he was capable of long-term planning with regard to Rome's provinces (his Julian law of extortion is a clear enough example of that), but whether or not he had the political foresight, or even capability, to carry out such inglorious wars is impossible to say. Something that we do know however, is that Caesar had a wonderful talent for propaganda. His two British expeditions were unmitigated disasters that gave him no substantial gain apart from their public relations value. He very nearly lost substantial portions of his army, and it's no small miracle that he was able to recover from these calamities at all. Claudius' later army mutinied before they even crossed the channel, and engaging in such far-reaching conquests may have been beyond Caesar's ability to lead his men. As an example, look at the disastrous effects that the mutinies of Alexander's army had on his own expedition, and compare this to the fact that Caesar had seen at least two major mutinies during the civil war.

I think the following is also crucial to consider: Caesar's wars thus far had not been against organized, powerful states with coherent governing regimes. The only comparable example was his war in Egypt, and that was almost a disaster before he was bailed out by Mithridates of Pergamum. His war against Pharnaces (who likewise led something more comparable to a modern state) was presaged by half a century of vigorous wars fought between Rome and Pontus in order to weaken their power to a degree that Caesar was able to swat them aside like he did. Looking again to the example of Carthage: it took numerous crushing victories by the Romans at the Metaurus, Carthago Nova, Zama, and numerous others in Spain before Carthage finally capitulated And even then, it took another half century and a three-year-long siege before that great power was finally humbled. Parthia was unlikely to capitulate any more easily, especially given that Rome was not yet clearly the dominant partner in that relationship (as they would come to be in the late 1st century CE). However, as I illustrated above, it would not be absolutely necessary to win any crushing victories over either the Dacians or the Parthians in order to achieve his domestic policy aims. His talent for propaganda may enable him to spin a marginal victory over or a strategic retreat by either power into the domestic leverage that always appeared to be after in the end (with conquests merely serving as means to this end).

But it should also be considered that Caesar's regime (and ultimately his life) were destroyed from within while he was still in Rome. Caesar's long absences from Rome generally saw his rivals and enemies gain considerable ground (whether this was during the Gallic Wars or his civil wars) or at least undermine the certainty of his own political security. Caesar's career almost ended in the standoff in 49 BCE, and even though he was unquestionably the most powerful man in Rome at the time of his death, it is far from certain whether or not an extended campaign far from Rome (much further from Rome than Gaul, which is an important detail) would be sufficient to undermine his own political support within the city itself. I could see it as being more feasible that Caesar would make periodic returns to Rome in order to reward his political allies and take measures to secure his own power (with continual grants of imperium or what have you) while he maintains a periodic correspondence with Rome as he sought to shore up his political support. However, the amount of traveling this entails would almost certainly have adverse effects on his health, and whether or not that would be sufficient to cut his life short is a relevant question.

Lastly of importance is, what were Caesar's plans for the succession? He clearly had his eye on the young Augustus by the time of his death, and some sources even claim that Augustus was a candidate for Caesar's magister equitum. Whether or not Caesar would have the time or foresight to consolidate the complex and indirect means of succession that Augustus later devised (with tribunician authority and personal grants of maius imperium) is possible, although it is important to note that Augustus took half a decade to secure this for himself and a further decade or two to do so for his heirs-apparent (at various times Agrippa, Gaius, and Tiberius). Augustus had the advantage of coming to power at such a young age that he was able to take his time forming the shape of his regime (which would later be called the principate), and whether or not Caesar's own foresight or political skill would allow this. The implication seems to be that a civil war is probable upon his death, although delaying his death by any length of time would only serve to strengthen the position of Augustus, and so the eventual long-term outcome may be similar to IOTL.
 
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I mostly agree with you on what you said

2 things I kind of have disagreements on

1.main thing about Dacia is there mountains Caesar will have no problem taking over the Greek area but once he gets to the mountainous areas it's going to cause a lot of problems which could easily add years to the campaign.

2. Caesar's military experience against stronger Nations you did mention Egypt but you forgot to mention Numidia and Pontus and to a lesser extent all of his victories against the Optimates in the Civil War.

and I have a question for you what do you think happens to Caesar's son caesarion
 
I mostly agree with you on what you said

2 things I kind of have disagreements on

1.main thing about Dacia is there mountains Caesar will have no problem taking over the Greek area but once he gets to the mountainous areas it's going to cause a lot of problems which could easily add years to the campaign.

2. Caesar's military experience against stronger Nations you did mention Egypt but you forgot to mention Numidia and Pontus and to a lesser extent all of his victories against the Optimates in the Civil War.

and I have a question for you what do you think happens to Caesar's son caesarion

1. I agree completely, and my point was that the length of the campaign is impossible to predict because of a lack of information about exactly how secure Burebista's regime was. You could have said that same thing about Pontus at the time of Pharnaces' revolt: it was a mountainous country that would be difficult to campaign in, and delaying tactics used by the defenders could have easily prolonged the campaign by years. But it didn't. The crucial factor here was that Pharnaces' own base of political support was not strong enough for him to survive even a single defeat. However, we have no idea if Burebista's control over Dacia was less, more, or equally weak. The collapse of his unified Dacian kingdom seems to indicate that it was not particularly strong, but this does not necessarily mean it was weak either. My whole point in using those examples was to indicate that Roman history (and history in general) has seen numerous examples of campaigns that were supposed to take much much longer than they did, and that a brief and rapid conquest of Dacia is not out of the question. How tenable such a conquest would be in the long run is much more in doubt, but my point is that in principle it is possible.

2. I think I adequately addressed Pontus in my lengthy post. Secondly, his victories over the Optimates were highly contextualized, being fought as they were, between armies of Roman citizens, adding a degree of complexity greater than simply "coherence of governing regime" as a measure of qualitatively analyzing armed opposition to Caesar. There are furthermore considerable instances of defections from the Optimates to the Caesarians, which makes these victories totally incomparable to Caesar's foreign wars, as during these wars Caesar would have no such leverage over his opponents. Furthermore, he and his troops knew the Roman way of fighting and thus any tactical or qualitative advantages that the Optimates might have had would be largely nullified. Numidia is a bit more difficult, but once again, this was not the Numidians' first encounter with the Romans. Rome had fought against the Numidians (and the with them) in the Punic Wars and the Jugurthine War, so the level of experience the Romans had in dealing with them (which had strategic morale advantages in addition to tactical advantages) was much greater. The Parthians by this time were largely a complete unknown. No successful campaign had ever been fought against them, and very little military intelligence was available for the conduct of such a war. This would negate the morale boost Caesar's legions otherwise had in his other wars and likewise Parthia's distance from Rome would have even greater adverse effects.

3. I think Caesarion's importance in history is only viewed in hindsight. He became a relevant political pawn during the rivalry between Antonius and Augustus because the existence of Caesarian was used to undermine Augustus' claim on the sole inheritance of Caesar. Caesarion played no relevant political role during Caesar's own lifetime, not least because of his youth, and I have my doubts as to whether or not the boy would even be as relevant as he was IOTL. Obviously, he would never be accepted as a Roman, and thus his chances of leveraging his father's position to advance his own interests are next to impossible. The best case scenario for him would be using his status as the son of Caesar to position himself as the dominant power-broker among Rome's eastern clients. But even then, this is highly contingent on the support of whatever regime was left in Rome. If Caesar or Augustus (whomever was in power at this time) faced any public or political pressure at all, they would likely discard him, since on his own, he was of little use to either of them and only served as an additional rallying point for potential rivals.
 
1. I agree completely,
sorry about cutting down your post they're quite long. yeah we're pretty much in agreement The Parthian Empire was Rome's major rival and if anyone could beat Caesar it's them.

Roman Legions do not work against cataphracts and horse archers I wonder how much he invest in Mercenaries and how much Calvary he brings maybe that's one of the reasons why he even went to Dacia maybe he was trying to get in contact with the Scythians to pay for a mercenary Cavalry and Cavalry archers this is all just purely speculation though

side note this might be just Roman propaganda
Marcus Licinius Crassus was most likely going to take part in these military campaigns. The Augustan historian Pompeius Trogus, of the Celtic Vocontii, said that the Parthians feared especially harsh retribution in any war won against them by Caesar, because the surviving son of Crassus would be among the Roman forces, seeking revenge for the deaths of his father and brother. but even if this is just propaganda I'm quite sure Caesar and the parthians are under no illusions that this war will have a clear winner.
 
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