In OTL there are something like 200 sovereign states. How can we make that figure a lot higher?
More than 1000 sovereign countries
- Thread starter Tio Paquete
- Start date
I would say it comes close to impossible. The modern state is defined first and foremost by a process of monopolization of violence which leads to the centralization of power. If states had not centralized the way they did we would not be able to call them states the way we use the term now, because they would not be our standard Westphalian states.
On a tangent, but was the standard Westphalian state inevitable? Is technological progress fundamentally tied with centralization?
Nothing is inevitable. The OP asked specifically for sovereign states, however. The Westphalian state and later the nation state demand centralization.
According to well-established US Supreme Court decisions, there are 50 sovereign states in the USA alone.
It's not that hard to envision similar systems around much of the world.
Well, if you un-unify the United States, Germany, and Italy, that adds about a hundred right there.
You probably need a world with a giant prohibitive superpower that actively busts up any confederations that show any signs of centralizing/becoming rival powers.
If every obscure Independence movement gets it's will than maybe...
Have a form of pseudo-anarchism where the only states are extremely small and limited become the dominant global ideology and that's a lot more than 1000. If every metropolitan area was its own state you'd easily have >10000 states.
Or just have a Greek city state model become predominant, and find a way to prevent larger states from exercising hegemony over smaller ones.
Or just have a Greek city state model become predominant, and find a way to prevent larger states from exercising hegemony over smaller ones.
Skallagrim
Banned
Recently, I posited the idea of an ATL where the Pope co-opts the Holy Roman Emperor's office, and actively supports local fiefs in a deliberate anti-centralisation strategy (to ensure that no temporal prince ever again gains enough power to wrest supremacy away from the Holy See). If such an "Empire" were to expand (by an immense amount of good fortune) to cover all of Christendom, then the end result would be a vast collection of small states, theoretically subservient to the Pope-Emperor, but sovereign in practice. One might especially think of a scenario where the power of the Pope-Emperor is eventually constrained, but in some sort of "constitution"/"charter" that conversely prevents the various states within the "Empire of Christendom" from merging together.
Thus, later on, you end up with a confederation of countless small sovereign states, theoretically loyal to the Holy See but fully free to set their own policy and make their own laws etc. ...covering all of Europe (at least to the west of where Orthodox Christianity begins).
Thus, later on, you end up with a confederation of countless small sovereign states, theoretically loyal to the Holy See but fully free to set their own policy and make their own laws etc. ...covering all of Europe (at least to the west of where Orthodox Christianity begins).
The US Supreme Court does not concern me, only international law does. The Supreme Court may claim that US states are sovereign to make them feel better, but it does not change the basic facts that US states do not hold the legitimate monopoly of violence within their territory, are not recognized as sovereign entities by other states and thus cannot sign international treaties, are subject to an authority higher than themselves (the US Constitution) and cannot even secede from the federation. US states have none of the requirements to be called sovereign. They are subnational entities.
Deleted member 114175
Other major dis-unifications could include India (decentralized Marathas + non-British Princely States), China (warlord states), and Russia (Kievan Rus' principalities + Turkic and Siberian khanates).
There are many ancient states that are unambiguously called as such. How does the average pre-Westphalia kingdom not count as a state?
Maybe confederations of city states become the political norm, instead of centralized states. They might act as single nations (even empires!) but officially they are independent cities confederated in leagues and alliances.
However there would become a point this would be only in paper. I can't see, for example, every single greek poleis or Southeast Asian city-state represented in an alt-UN or drawn in a world atlas.
Though maybe that's just my lack of imagination. I mean, hundreds of models of empires and states have risen through history, and the modern one is just one of them. I can't see why it should be the logical endpoint in all TLs.
However there would become a point this would be only in paper. I can't see, for example, every single greek poleis or Southeast Asian city-state represented in an alt-UN or drawn in a world atlas.
Though maybe that's just my lack of imagination. I mean, hundreds of models of empires and states have risen through history, and the modern one is just one of them. I can't see why it should be the logical endpoint in all TLs.