People's Socialist Empire of China instead of Qing Dynasty.

So IOTL, the Qing took over the Ming during the Ming-Qing wars (1616-1683). But IITL, Song China is alive since the Mongols never become powerful and it occupies all of Inner and Outer Manchuria, all of Inner and Outer Mongolia, Burma, Hokkaido, Philippines (ITTL Magellan never came and introduced Christianity), Taiwan, and Buryatia, and has 400 million people. It also has steam-powered ships, better rifles than Europe, and still has universal welfare like the Song did IOTL (though they also have the predecessor to universal healthcare).

Instead of a Qing takeover, in 1644 a rebellion by a group called the People's Song Empire of China declare that they want to give equality to all the people, as well as literacy to all (ITTL Song China pre-revolution has a literacy rate of 65% for men and 50% for women due to expansion of examinations due to rise in wealth), more food to all, less influence from the "Western vermin", no Confucianism, and removal of most to all of the old "venomous" traditions.

25 million die in the revolts (since IOTL, 25 milion died in the Qing takeover), but a "People's Chief-Representative" is put on the former throne in 1650, a woman by the name of Mei Xia. A "People's Court of Governor-Representatives" is also installed, with 100 Governor-Representatives who not only each maintained a province, but helped make decisions in the People's Court along with the Chief-Representative.

The PSEC has 400 million again by 1655, though now what few minorities there once were are now wiped out (so bye bye Manchus and Mongols), and women are now equal to men, with foot-binding and concubinage illegal. Education is improved, to the point where 80% of the people (both men and women) are literate. It, ironically enough, mixes communism with fascism and the Chinese ocial tructure, mixing some of the best and wort from each.



I know this likely isn't very good, but what do you guys think?
 
So, in a less extreme direction, what if China became a merchant republic in the 1600s? Aside from the fact merchants were disliked at the time... what could change?
 
So, in a less extreme direction, what if China became a merchant republic in the 1600s? Aside from the fact merchants were disliked at the time... what could change?

Basically impossible due to Confucianism
Most Confucian bureaucrats preach against trade,but most of their family members/friends were heavily involved in them. It's political correctness rather than them actually believing in it.
 
So, in a less extreme direction, what if China became a merchant republic in the 1600s? Aside from the fact merchants were disliked at the time... what could change?

Basically impossible due to Confucianism

Most Confucian bureaucrats preach against trade,but most of their family members/friends were heavily involved in them. It's political correctness rather than them actually believing in it.

Also, merchant republics tend only to emerge out of regions with weak material and population bases, what they do have being HIGHLY concentrated in a single center of power, and who's merchant class is empowered by extensive trade with a external market that dwarfs the domestic one. China dosen't meet any of the qualificiations for a powerful merchant class compared to its rural nobles and court beuracrats,
 
I'm pretty sure what this guy is saying is that if the Song didn't fall and instead went through an Industrial Revolution five centuries earlier, they could have a TTL's version of socialism and a socialist revolution arise earlier than it happened in OTL.

I mean, this scenario is still riddled with illogical stuff and lack of realism, but at least this interpretation doesn't make it an ASB scenario.
 
How about instead of communist, this Song empire just becomes a constitutional monarchy, but still genocides minorities. I was inspired by a hoi4 mod i was playing called 1632, a world on fire, as i played China, am now constitutionalist, and have taken over the territories mentioned at the top.
 
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