damein fisher
Banned
Is there any way to get one of the Canadian Provinces [Nova Scotia, St John's Island, Upper Canada, Lower Canada or Newfoundland at the time] to join the American rebels?
How can I get a Canadian province to join the Thirteen Colonies?
- Thread starter damein fisher
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Max Sinister
Banned
In "Decades of Darkness", New England actually buys the Maritime provinces (except Newfoundland) from Canada.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
Upper Canada is probably the most viable; the Maritime Provinces are too closely tied to Britain and the Québécois know the Americans hate their Papist guts and had recently managed to get concessions in the Quebec Act which they aren't going to risk losing. If the British give more concessions to the Frenchies though, and you see the Great Lakes tied closer economically between its banks (and perhaps seeing dissident Britions sent to Lower Canada at some point), and I can see them joining the rebellion.
Nova Scotia is the only "Canadian" colony to have seriously considered joining Britain, and if the Nipissing Line had been insisted upon by the Americans, Britain would have accepted giving what is now Southern Ontario to them.
As for Quebec, I think it could have rebelled if France hadn't forced the British to tolerate the Canadiens at the Treaty of Paris (1763), and the colony of Quebec was treated. But I don't really see it joining the US. Considering its reaction to the French Revolution and considering how Quebec was extremely conservative up until the Quiet Revolution, I don't see it forming a republic either, instead creating some "Kingdom of Canada" and importing a French noble as "King of Canada". Which is an interesting scenario in its own right, but that's not what you're looking for.
As for Quebec, I think it could have rebelled if France hadn't forced the British to tolerate the Canadiens at the Treaty of Paris (1763), and the colony of Quebec was treated. But I don't really see it joining the US. Considering its reaction to the French Revolution and considering how Quebec was extremely conservative up until the Quiet Revolution, I don't see it forming a republic either, instead creating some "Kingdom of Canada" and importing a French noble as "King of Canada". Which is an interesting scenario in its own right, but that's not what you're looking for.
Are you speaking of the 1837 rebellions? The only reason they turned into revolution at all was because Britain refused to reform the colonial system, and both rebellions were extremely minor.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
In that case though you don't get the Quebec Act, which was one of the key "Intolerable Acts" which triggered Revolutionary sentiment in the American colonies to begin with. In order to have parts of Canada join the Revolution, you still have to have a Revolution to begin with.
BlondieBC
Banned
Didn't France oppose the USA getting Upper Canada IOTL? If so, then changing the French position may be enough. I am not so sure the USA actually controlled the ground of a lot of the land we got IOTL, so it maybe well be more of a negotiating change needed compared to a military change. Now if you want just changes to the map lines of a few dozen miles here or there, that should be easier. It is not as if these were settled areas that had been surveyed as the Maine boundary shows.
The Quebec Act was simply the last straw for the colonists. Without it, the Revolution would be slightly delayed, but that is is.
Make the French shell Halifax sometime during the war, and get the local rebels to attacking then. Make a way shittier Quebec act, and have America give them concessions. Rupert’s Land could get leased if the rest happens, but Newfoundland isn’t going to them.
WRT the OP, I highly recommend reading this thread which addresses the question of whether getting much of OTL Canada was feasible or not (it was).
Quebec may be outside the reach of the Colonials without a roughly 1750s-era POD, and the Maritimes might be unattainable at the time of the Revolution due to the British Royal Navy, but Upper Canada/Ontario and points west are relatively easy pickings considering the Nipissing was an easy demarcation point for border claims west (and the British in 1783 were not overly keen on keeping that chunk of North America). All it'd take is a voiced request during the Treaty to get that land, and beyond that the rest of the Continent is open (to wit, the UK wouldn't ever fight over the Hudson Bay area by the 19th century or really want it anymore IMO).
Quebec may be outside the reach of the Colonials without a roughly 1750s-era POD, and the Maritimes might be unattainable at the time of the Revolution due to the British Royal Navy, but Upper Canada/Ontario and points west are relatively easy pickings considering the Nipissing was an easy demarcation point for border claims west (and the British in 1783 were not overly keen on keeping that chunk of North America). All it'd take is a voiced request during the Treaty to get that land, and beyond that the rest of the Continent is open (to wit, the UK wouldn't ever fight over the Hudson Bay area by the 19th century or really want it anymore IMO).
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Upper Canada is most doable, it just needed some better negotiating. The northwest watershed around Lake Superior was up for grabs IIRC, and that would have eventually secured the Great Prairie for the United States.
There is a chance that you could peel Montreal away from Quebec at Trois Rivieres with more enlightened Patriot Occupation.
The Patriots could have done a little bit more to curry favor in St. John's Island and Nova Scotia, but I think to take those places would have required more money, supplies, and soldiers in 1774. At the best they could have prevented the big convoy of Redcoats and Germans from landing at Halifax. Once the British reinforcements arrive I don't think the Patriots or the French will have any interest in sending the force of arms needed to dislodge them. But if the Patriots had been there at the start of the War and built up good will while the Redcoats soured the populace then those two could be get in treaty negotiations.
Lower Canada probably could be liberated, but keeping them (specifically Quebec City) into a union would be difficult. I think they would be inclined more towards an antifederalist confederation. You could probably convince Lower Canada as a state to restrict itself to a strip along the St. Lawrence River and give up the hinterlands of the Labrador Peninsula and parts of the southern bank of the St. Lawrence River as unorganized territory.
I think I read that Rupertsland was on the table once, but I think that is going to be pretty tough for the Patriots to get from the UK.
Newfoundland is going to be very tough to get. Likewise the Northwest Territory and and British Columbia will be extremely difficult to get from the War for Independence. And the British Arctic Isles are just ASB.