But the Draka's racism is what makes them so fun!
Although, an evil, slave-owning Maori Empire of Doom sounds downright awesome.
Oceania Draka?
- Thread starter Strategos' Risk
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But the Draka's racism is what makes them so fun!
Although, an evil, slave-owning Maori Empire of Doom sounds downright awesome.
The Anglo-Dutch form the first tier, the next tier is random white ethnic immigrants. Third tier are Maori and "war capable" Polynesian tribes. No idea if maybe they might show favor on some Indonesians. Next tier is Irish. Last tier is everyone else. I still think the solution for their manpower is to import a bunch of Indian indentured workers.
We can have an Oceanian timeline Prime, and then another timeline where Oceania somehow manifests in the Draka universe.
Then someone will create a thread with Canadian Draka, and we will have covered all of the white dominions.
We can have an Oceanian timeline Prime, and then another timeline where Oceania somehow manifests in the Draka universe.
Then someone will create a thread with Canadian Draka, and we will have covered all of the white dominions.
I always fail to see the attraction of Draka timelines. A society like the Draka will almost inevitably end up looking like the CSA, only with a smaller, more hated elite and even greater international condemnation.
In Oceania, such a society is perfectly plausible, with enslaved aboriginals or Indonesians providing the bulk of the workforce: but it certainly won't be a long-term success, and eventually it'll go the way of all white-minority governments - swallowed up by an angry black majority.
In Oceania, such a society is perfectly plausible, with enslaved aboriginals or Indonesians providing the bulk of the workforce: but it certainly won't be a long-term success, and eventually it'll go the way of all white-minority governments - swallowed up by an angry black majority.
Everyone loves an evil villain for the good guys to fight... or to defeat the good guys and to create a dystopia.
"Hey, dudes, want to sail off on our scary giant canoe and help us conquer some of our neighbors?"
"Sure, man, sounds cool! Let me just pack my patu and some taro and I'll be right with you!"
Bruce
You have not read my dimension 27 mini-timeline. Though they didn't have slaves, that was the Americans, after the Canadians stole the north.
Well, we have done Fascist Australian Empire... https://www.alternatehistory.com/di...28517&highlight=fascist+australia#post3828517
But I really think we need to have an earlier settlement of Australia to get the necessary demographics in place for any large-scale territorial expansion. Australia doesn't have an open land frontier into a larger continent: Draka can just walk north. Aussie-Draka stop when they reach the northern swamps and deserts, and need to take a long sail to get anywhere inviting. To make conquests in Indonesia, etc. it needs the infrastructure to build a fairly formidable fleet. And one should remember that in Asia Europeans really weren't up for large-scale conquest in Asia until the late 18th century: pre-Napoleonic wars, for instance, Dutch Indonesia was mostly useful ports and coastal regions and some productive Spice Islands, and most of the territory of the Big Islands (Sumatra, Borneo, even Java) was unoccupied.
(Handwavyness follows)
If by some combination of Spanish or Portuguese monomania and rumors of gold (perhaps even a nugget traveling hand by hand to one of the coasts) a European settlement is established in Australia in the 16th century, it's going to require a couple centuries, given the sheer difficulty of getting there before clipper ships, for the population to grow to the point where they can field necessary forces: but this will give you a slave-holding society isolated enough to have some quite serious cultural drift by the late 18th century. If there's a *Napoleonic war equivalent around the OTL time, they might be able to displace the Dutch and perhaps grab the Philippines... (take it from there).
Bruce
But I really think we need to have an earlier settlement of Australia to get the necessary demographics in place for any large-scale territorial expansion. Australia doesn't have an open land frontier into a larger continent: Draka can just walk north. Aussie-Draka stop when they reach the northern swamps and deserts, and need to take a long sail to get anywhere inviting. To make conquests in Indonesia, etc. it needs the infrastructure to build a fairly formidable fleet. And one should remember that in Asia Europeans really weren't up for large-scale conquest in Asia until the late 18th century: pre-Napoleonic wars, for instance, Dutch Indonesia was mostly useful ports and coastal regions and some productive Spice Islands, and most of the territory of the Big Islands (Sumatra, Borneo, even Java) was unoccupied.
(Handwavyness follows)
If by some combination of Spanish or Portuguese monomania and rumors of gold (perhaps even a nugget traveling hand by hand to one of the coasts) a European settlement is established in Australia in the 16th century, it's going to require a couple centuries, given the sheer difficulty of getting there before clipper ships, for the population to grow to the point where they can field necessary forces: but this will give you a slave-holding society isolated enough to have some quite serious cultural drift by the late 18th century. If there's a *Napoleonic war equivalent around the OTL time, they might be able to displace the Dutch and perhaps grab the Philippines... (take it from there).
Bruce
Well since i recall the original Draka were the loyalist emigres from he American revolution, i suppose it could be argued that the Draka were Canadian. In a way.
Still stupid though
"Hey, dudes, want to sail off on our scary giant canoe and help us conquer some of our neighbors?"
"Sure, man, sounds cool! Let me just pack my patu and some taro and I'll be right with you!"
Bruce
Were there ever Maori mercenaries? Or maybe the Oceanians can like vassalize them into their personal martial races.
Another thought worth considering is that aside from the obvious strategic/logistical/technological/political problems with the Draka, is the social implausibility. As our esteemed admin said,
I think in a very limited defense of Stirling, he at least tried to explain this away by having a bunch of sociopathic will to power type philosophers emigrate to Drakia. And then there was that random discovery of classical works from Antiquity that caused them to think of themselves as better than everybody else.
Perhaps we need to think of some contrived reasons for Oceanians (or Oceanic Draka, creative names wanted!) to become hyper-aggressive supremacists. Are there any Polynesian belief systems that would support violent expansion, yet can syncretize with white settler worldviews?
Lycaon pictus
Donor
I'll have to find my copy of Guns, Germs and Steel and get back to you.
In the meantime, just think of the Draka as a nation of Chuck Norrises.
1816- The Draka invent the first steam-powered revolving door.
1817- The Draka slam it shut.
1903- Sigmund Freud discovers the Draka are not afraid of heights.
1953- Edmund Hillary discovers heights are afraid of the Draka.
1960- Mathematician Kurt Gödel proves that repeating decimals never stop, until they meet the Draka. Then they turn around and go the other way.
1970- The CDC confirms that the Draka sneeze with their eyes open.
And so on.
In the meantime, just think of the Draka as a nation of Chuck Norrises.
1816- The Draka invent the first steam-powered revolving door.
1817- The Draka slam it shut.
1903- Sigmund Freud discovers the Draka are not afraid of heights.
1953- Edmund Hillary discovers heights are afraid of the Draka.
1960- Mathematician Kurt Gödel proves that repeating decimals never stop, until they meet the Draka. Then they turn around and go the other way.
1970- The CDC confirms that the Draka sneeze with their eyes open.
And so on.
I like the concept. Given how Australia's terrain is a lot harsher than Africa's or America's, perhaps TTL's Australians start getting the notion they're Ubermenschen because they import masses of slaves to build canals to make the desert bloom or whatever and can keep control of them despite being outnumbered.
That could work, they could cut a cannel to lake Erye (Sp?) and flood it giving OZ an inland sea.
I also think absorbing the tats from Maori culture would be cool and they should ride moa's and train the great eagles (the things that ate moas) how cool would that be.
Hmm...me likey. However, would an inland sea make the desert more hospitable to agriculture or less?
Maybe if they grow salt-resistant plants or turn the now-saline lake/sea into a giant fish- or shrimp-farm, that might work.
However, some writer made a good case that rice agriculture is economically conducive to free laborers and not slaves. Perhaps the creating an Australian inland sea to grow salt-resistant rice by the billions-of-tons could lead to serfdom or tenant farming in those regions while outright slavery is used for public-works projects and the like.
Heck, if the "Oceanic Draka" are smart, they might allow for some social mobility--if you're a good slave in the mines or canals, you get a rice plot for yourslf and your family. Gives the slaves incentive to work hard.
Having them ride moas and the like is getting a bit absurd*, but I can imagine them mixing with the Maori and the resulting culture being really scary-badass (complete with tattoos).
*At least as cavalry. Maybe having the president being pulled by moas on a chariot on ceremonial occasions is doable.
I think it was Abdul who said unsupervised settlers are typically the most brutal to natives. Thing is, Australia was a giant prison, so there was a lot of supervision.
Perhaps a giant revolt tosses the British out and to avoid the British revenge, the new government agrees to continue accepting prisoners? They need the manpower after all.
Maybe there should be a fairly early POD so a plantation economy develops in Australia? Anti-slavery agitation in Britain prompts a revolt with the white convicts as the planters' manpower?
Perhaps a giant revolt tosses the British out and to avoid the British revenge, the new government agrees to continue accepting prisoners? They need the manpower after all.
Maybe there should be a fairly early POD so a plantation economy develops in Australia? Anti-slavery agitation in Britain prompts a revolt with the white convicts as the planters' manpower?
Could a more successful Castle Hill Rebellion work?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hill_Rebellion
Or perhaps the Rum Rebellion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion
Heck, you could combine them--a rural convict rebel state eventually joins forces with dissidents in more established places to toss the British prison-state out entirely.
The problem is, Britain might lose control of Sydney and thereabouts, but they'd still have *the rest of the continent.*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hill_Rebellion
Or perhaps the Rum Rebellion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion
Heck, you could combine them--a rural convict rebel state eventually joins forces with dissidents in more established places to toss the British prison-state out entirely.
The problem is, Britain might lose control of Sydney and thereabouts, but they'd still have *the rest of the continent.*
I'm pondering "Australian" control extending far enough north that the "Oceanic" state includes Singapore too, but that might be getting a bit absurd.
Conquering Indonesia with a low manpower base and a much smaller technological advantage would be a dicey enough proposition as is.
Conquering Indonesia with a low manpower base and a much smaller technological advantage would be a dicey enough proposition as is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Eyre_Basin
Sorry for spamming the thread, but I figured this link would be useful if we wanted to discuss a megaproject the Aussie-Draka could do if they had enough slaves.
The climatic effect of flooding Lake Eyre would apparently be negligible (there is another thread on here that discusses the matter).
A canal to the interior would make travel/transportation much quicker an easier.
There is a native plant called spinifex or salt bush that is salt tolerant (surprise, surprise) and that apparently makes good cattle fodder. The problem for large scale grazing in the area is water suitable for stock and human consumption.
A canal to the interior would make travel/transportation much quicker an easier.
There is a native plant called spinifex or salt bush that is salt tolerant (surprise, surprise) and that apparently makes good cattle fodder. The problem for large scale grazing in the area is water suitable for stock and human consumption.