Protect and Survive: A Timeline
- Thread starter Macragge1
- Start date
Macragge1
Banned
Just had a major flashback to the Threads theme tune discussion : - why on earth didn't I think of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXUCFk8VJFY - it's based on The Road anyway, and it's fucking sick.
Also thanks for the comments.
Also thanks for the comments.
Hendryk
Banned
Had you not said it was based on "The Road", I would have thought the song referred to the Trail of Tears. The Cherokee did literally "carry the fire", it was their sacred fire that could never be allowed to go out.
Might it be more of a good thing to not be born into this world?
Fantastic TL anyway. The best I've read on this site.
Can I just ask how Wales is doing? I notice Swansea wasn't struck - that surprised me. Particularly how is rural mid-Wales and (I'm a sucker for this stuff) are the art and artefacts safe in that disused mine?
Macragge1
Banned
Wales is doing better than some areas - this is of course, however, extremely relative. Cardiff has been destroyed, and several misses have torn up large areas of the countryside (including the warhead meant for Swansea). Rural mid-wales has taken a couple of small bombs, but the main worry comes from a) refugees and b) fallout.
The art and artefacts are safe, but unguarded. The moments the bombs hit, the commissioner for Wales decided that the soldiers and police could be better redeployed for more pressing duties.
The entrances were padlocked and everyone just left.
I was going to ask, given Threads, whether the British public were reacting better (or worse) as a result of it. But I see it wasn't released until AFTER the POD (August 1984) so is unlikely to even have got to the edit room yet, let alone left it.
I trust most of the cast of Threads have been blown to smithereens in the opening round?
I trust most of the cast of Threads have been blown to smithereens in the opening round?
Macragge1
Banned
Yeah, Threads didn't even get off the ground here - the messiness in Russia that forms the POD was sometime in mid-1983. The BBC was reluctant to comission a show that, given the worsening situation, would not just unsettle the public, but downright panic them.
Most of the actors are dead. Mick Jackson (the director) has managed, by virtue of his 'expertise' (he already produced a documentary precursor to Threads in 1981) to bluff his way into the Wood Norton bunker as some sort of 'technical advisor'.
Wow - that's the most meta answer I've had to come up with yet - thanks for asking it!
Unless I've missed them it looks like Aberdeen and Inverness have survived. Looking at the rest of the list I'm somewhere in the upper atmosphere, or buried under a pile of rubble.
Since John Peel has survived, I wonder if Terry Wogan made it to Wood Norton? Listen carefully and he's in Threads.
Since John Peel has survived, I wonder if Terry Wogan made it to Wood Norton? Listen carefully and he's in Threads.
Macragge1
Banned
Look on the bright side - a lot of people who made it past H-hour would argue that somewhere in the stratosphere would be just heavenly (no pun intended).
Aberdeen and Inverness were only alloted one bomb each, and they both got lucky - Inverness especially has a problem now, as large amounts of refugees (despite the best efforts of the pre-war authorities) considered it 'highlands' enough - there simply isn't enough food or space for them
Huwhaa? I'm guessing he's playing on the background in the radio during the pre-war, but even so - that's nuts.
So far in the bunker we've got John Peel (praise be upon him) and we did have Janet Ellis before she commited suicide - reading nursery rhymes to a wasteland was simply too much.
Uninspired as I am personally by Wogan, I can certainly see the appeal of him (and that voice) in a post-war environment - the more 'classic' presenters, the more continuity - better for morale. Sure, yeah, let's keep him in.
Anyone got any mid-80's celebrites they'd like not to die? (wow, this is entering borderline Viz territory
)Also Jan, quick question - there'd be nothing majorly impossible about emptying the bomb - bay in a Victor and jury-rigging a bit of extra passenger space in there (obvs it would be pretty cold and uncomfortable but hey, so's everywhere these days)
Wogan's voice is clearly heard in the background in the scene where Clive Sutton receives the telegram from the Home Office. His listeners occasionally like to pull his leg about it.
I think it would be possible, after all agents traveled in the bomb bays of Mosquitoes and other bombers in WW2. Anybody doing it would need to really be wrapped up against the cold and have an oxygen supply.
I think it would be possible, after all agents traveled in the bomb bays of Mosquitoes and other bombers in WW2. Anybody doing it would need to really be wrapped up against the cold and have an oxygen supply.
Excellent thread - please keep it up!
Re: HP Victor - Unfortunately, by this time all the remaining Victors are permanently converted to tankers & the bays are fitted with extra (non removable) tanks (ditto the remaining 4 Vulcans). However, the Victor (and Vulcan) have the ability to fit one additional seat (although on Vulcans, it's only a jump seat). It may also be possible to use the visual bomb aimers position on both a/c although this would be a most uncomfortable ride....
Probably, most crews would've given these seats to their crew chief (if anyone) come the fateful day.
Regards,
MancFrank
Just remembered - by this time, the AEO's seat has also been removed from the Victors so that's the potential to fit TWO additional seats on these a/c.
Re: HP Victor - Unfortunately, by this time all the remaining Victors are permanently converted to tankers & the bays are fitted with extra (non removable) tanks (ditto the remaining 4 Vulcans). However, the Victor (and Vulcan) have the ability to fit one additional seat (although on Vulcans, it's only a jump seat). It may also be possible to use the visual bomb aimers position on both a/c although this would be a most uncomfortable ride....
Probably, most crews would've given these seats to their crew chief (if anyone) come the fateful day.
Regards,
MancFrank
Just remembered - by this time, the AEO's seat has also been removed from the Victors so that's the potential to fit TWO additional seats on these a/c.
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Orville_third
Banned
Well, as a Whovian, I'd like Tom Baker to be kept alive. Mary Tamm too. (Perhaps she can play an important RL role, if they need someone speaking Estonian...)
One question on a far different topic...what has happened to the Cadet forces? Would the survivors find themselves effectively drafted?
One question on a far different topic...what has happened to the Cadet forces? Would the survivors find themselves effectively drafted?
THis is one of the best timelines on this site that i have read. As someone who grew up in the 70's i can remember Jets taking off from RAF Leuchars to intercept Soviet Bombers over the North Sea, as the Soviets practiced bombing runs, something that the russians have recently started again,(going by news reports).
I lived in Dundee in 83 , so would presumably been one of the 19, 000+ killed when it was nuked.
Anyway on a lighter note would Whoops Apocalypse have been made in this timeline?
So what exactly do the Highlands look like in such a scenario? How are regional and county breakdowns in Scotland at the time?
Inverness lives, and as already stated will face major problems in the future. Meanwhile, with the destruction of the comm base in Thurso (down the road a ways, but still) would also take out Dounreay, meaning that the nuclear plant as well as the nuclear sub works would also add to the distruction. Fallout, depending on wind patterns, would effect the rest of Caithness and head out into the North Sea. Whoever is in charge of the far northeastern section will def have their hands full, if they themselves aren't already dead.
Anyway, love the timeline and looking forward to more!
Macragge1
Banned
At the moment, it's a fairly optimistic assumption that there's a single Estonian speaker walking the face of the Earth...
Basically, yes - they're effectively used in the exact same way as normal troops. Theoretically, they were to be used in a 'support' role. In practice, anyone with enough training to hold a gun and follow orders is being used to keep order.
In Portugal, potential targets during the later years of the Cold War (besides large population centres, like Lisbon) would be:
The Iberian Atlantic Command (IBERLANT), in Oeiras;
A reserve airport at Ovar;
Montijo Air Base;
Beja Air Base ( training facility for the West German Luftwaffe;
The Azorean bases of Lajes (American) and Flores (French);
I hope this helps.
The Iberian Atlantic Command (IBERLANT), in Oeiras;
A reserve airport at Ovar;
Montijo Air Base;
Beja Air Base ( training facility for the West German Luftwaffe;
The Azorean bases of Lajes (American) and Flores (French);
I hope this helps.
Anyone got any mid-80's celebrites they'd like not to die? (wow, this is entering borderline Viz territory
How about Jasper Carrott ? In the mid-80's he had a comedy act based around Protect and Survive
Cheers,
Nigel.
The end of the pier?
Ladies and Gentlemen please. If you hadn't noticed the world has come to a shuddering end accompanied by a generous helping of thermonuclear hades for pretty much every man woman and child in existence. There is no hope that a cheery voice will 'keep up our spirits' especially the band of establishment no-hopers that have been listed so far! I doubt Peel would have gone to the bunker, Wogan would have probably had sufficient common sense and resources to have his own bunker available well in advance and the only real joy in this scenario is that Carrot would probably have been shot early on in the proceedings for spreading doom and gloom (I heard his act back in the 80's). This is a fabulously evocative TL and irrelevant talk of our favourite voice can only detract from the atmosphere that has been created.
Ladies and Gentlemen please. If you hadn't noticed the world has come to a shuddering end accompanied by a generous helping of thermonuclear hades for pretty much every man woman and child in existence. There is no hope that a cheery voice will 'keep up our spirits' especially the band of establishment no-hopers that have been listed so far! I doubt Peel would have gone to the bunker, Wogan would have probably had sufficient common sense and resources to have his own bunker available well in advance and the only real joy in this scenario is that Carrot would probably have been shot early on in the proceedings for spreading doom and gloom (I heard his act back in the 80's). This is a fabulously evocative TL and irrelevant talk of our favourite voice can only detract from the atmosphere that has been created.
This is a fantastic timeline. A couple questions, if I may, and sorry if they've already been asked:
1. how far are you going to take the effects of nuclear winter? There should be a couple hundred trillion grams of soot in the atmosphere, will there just be a succession of harsh winters, or something closer to a full-on ice age?
2. what's the state of India and Pakistan, were nuclear weapons exchanged there as well? I'm not sure that each country had many nukes by 83, and even less that they had robust delivery systems (especially Pakistan).
3. similarly, what about China? Was there an exchange between Russia and China, or China and the US?
Anyway, please keep up the good work!
1. how far are you going to take the effects of nuclear winter? There should be a couple hundred trillion grams of soot in the atmosphere, will there just be a succession of harsh winters, or something closer to a full-on ice age?
2. what's the state of India and Pakistan, were nuclear weapons exchanged there as well? I'm not sure that each country had many nukes by 83, and even less that they had robust delivery systems (especially Pakistan).
3. similarly, what about China? Was there an exchange between Russia and China, or China and the US?
Anyway, please keep up the good work!
Ladies and Gentlemen please. If you hadn't noticed the world has come to a shuddering end accompanied by a generous helping of thermonuclear hades for pretty much every man woman and child in existence. There is no hope that a cheery voice will 'keep up our spirits' especially the band of establishment no-hopers that have been listed so far! I doubt Peel would have gone to the bunker, Wogan would have probably had sufficient common sense and resources to have his own bunker available well in advance and the only real joy in this scenario is that Carrot would probably have been shot early on in the proceedings for spreading doom and gloom (I heard his act back in the 80's). This is a fabulously evocative TL and irrelevant talk of our favourite voice can only detract from the atmosphere that has been created.
Yes, you're quite right, except that I wouldn't describe Peel as having a cheery voice. Calm and re-assuring perhaps - and it would probably have taken a nuclear war to make him play a Gloria Gaynor record.
I must admit that I didn't mean Jasper as a serious contender, still his act does include one serious question:
JasperCarrot said:
So were prisoners released ITTL ? I guess that it might have happened to free up prison guards for general police duties.
Cheers,
Nigel.