Remnants of Rome

I would see it to be more interesting if the Zoharists expand in a different direction than their OTL Islamic analogues. Maybe try capturing Anatolia and parts of the Balkans?

I agree. It would be cool to see the Zoharists to try to conquer europe :D

:confused:

Didn't the various Caliphates do that very thing?

I'd be more interested in seeing the Rahbarate working its way down the Nile and into the Horn of Africa, or expanding into Central Asia and/or across the Caucasus.
 
:confused:

Didn't the various Caliphates do that very thing?

I'd be more interested in seeing the Rahbarate working its way down the Nile and into the Horn of Africa, or expanding into Central Asia and/or across the Caucasus.

They did not succeed. It'll be interesting if they managed to pull it off.
 
The Vandals crossed into North Africa from Spain in 429 and overran the area by 439 and founded their own kingdom, including Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia and the Balearic's.
With a 410 POD, would whe have the Vandals in NAfrica. It sounds as if Spain [SPQR] held off the Vandals. And they never devastated Iberia.
 
With a 410 POD, would whe have the Vandals in NAfrica. It sounds as if Spain [SPQR] held off the Vandals. And they never devastated Iberia.

The Vandals looked like they did pass through Iberia prior to setting up their little kingdom in North Africa so it can be presumed from the time-line writer that the Western Roman forces had expelled them.
 
Also, when will europe start fragmenting into smaller states? Been wondering that.
Soon.

They did not succeed. It'll be interesting if they managed to pull it off.
Hmm, well I was thinking the Zoharists could capture Constantinople and force the Eastern Roman Empire to convert to Zoharism, but not conquer the territory.


The Vandals looked like they did pass through Iberia prior to setting up their little kingdom in North Africa so it can be presumed from the time-line writer that the Western Roman forces had expelled them.
Yes. Though a few stayed behind, those are the ones that led to the Vandal-Alan revolt which failed.
 
Soon.


Hmm, well I was thinking the Zoharists could capture Constantinople and force the Eastern Roman Empire to convert to Zoharism, but not conquer the territory.



Yes. Though a few stayed behind, those are the ones that led to the Vandal-Alan revolt which failed.

Improbable that the Eastern Romans would convert. I think to have Zoharism starting in Europe, they need to expand there and convert the local populations.
 
TIMENT VENEDI

The Slavic horde continued to push into the Ostrogothic kingdom. The Venedi Slavs were savages. Every town they conquered was looted and nearly completely destroyed. People conquered by the Venedi Slavs, well, at least the people who survived, had two choices.They could offer to join and fight for the Horde, which was probably their best option, or they could be sold into various types of slavery. However not all were lucky enough to receive a choice, and some were immediately sold into slavery. Eastern Roman accounts stated that the Venedi Slavs occasionally engaged in cannibalism. These accounts were most likely untrue.

By mid 487, the Slavs and Eastern Romans had completely conquered the Ostrogothic territories. The King of the Venedi Slavs, Vluku, died to be succeeded by his son Kunedzi. But not all approved Kunedzi as King of the Slavs and for two years a war of succession was fought. Notable pretenders included Rozedazi, Vlucezi, and Ruczeu. Ruczeu was the most successful claimant and he captured Dorostorum, Marcianopolis, Novae, and Ratiara before he was killed in battle and support disappeared.

When Kunedzi became the undisputed king of the Slavs, he invaded the Hunnic Empire. 120,000 troops poured in, including not only Slavs, but Gepids, Ostrogoths, Greeks, and even Huns. The Huns, the scourge of the Earth, masters of the horse, warriors from the East, conquerers of Europe, were not what they once were, and now lived a more sedentary, ‘civilized’ lifestyle. Horses played a large part in Hun life, being used for farm labor, and the Huns had a large army which consisted mostly of cavalry, but the Huns were, as the Ravenian philosopher Antoniuso put it, “a people, not a Horde”.

The Slavs led two main armies into Hun land. Kunedzi himself led 65,000 troops southward into Greece, while 45,000 troops headed westward, who were led by the general Vlad. Kunedzi’s troops had great success except at the Battle of Hadrianapolis (which actually took place quite a ways east of Hadrianopolis, in the mountains), when the Hun cavalry, cleverly using the terrain, literally jumped onto the Slavs, flanking them from both sides. Kunedzi was later (mis)quoted as saying, “it rained horses and men”, however, the phrase originated from an Eastern Roman historian of the time, Xanthippus, in his writings about the event. The Slavs were forced to retreat and significant casualties occured, however, they returned a week later with reinforcements and captured the area, including Hadrianopolis itself. Vlad’s army was also successful, reaching past the Dinaric Alps. The Eastern Romans also led armies in the south, but made many less gains due to most of their troops troops fighting slave revolts in Anatolia and Rhodes. In 492, the Huns made peace with the Slavs and Eastern Romans, giving up their territories in Greece and establishing a border partly on and partly around the Dinaric Alps.

After the Huns conquered much of Greece, a large exodus occurred as Greeks migrated to Anatolia, non-Hun Greece, and Italy. However, a sizable amount of Greeks remained. When the Slavs conquered the area, they all fled, every single one of them. Only the Huns remained--and they either joined the Slavic armies or were enslaved. Slavs, Gepids, and Ostrogoths settled the area heavily.

This era, at least in the Holy Roman Empire, was known as a time of peace. Votadini joined the Holy Roman Empire when its leader, Cryten, converted to Britannian Christianity. However to the north of the Holy Roman Empire, not all was peaceful. Gorteim of the Picts succeeded to the throne of Grand Chief after his father Talorc died. Talorc had united most of the Pict tribes, but to Gorteim that was not enough. Starting 488, Gorteim assembled a large army of many warbands and many mercenaries and ventured north, vassalizing and conquering the rest of the Pictish tribes in Britannia. In 493 all of the Picts were united under his rule, and the only other peoples in northern Britannia were the Goidels.

Judocus II of Biohaemia was an ambitious ruler. Most of the previous rulers of Biohaemia were occupied with keeping the kingdom together. However, his father, Judocus I, managed to finally crush most resistance. To stabilize the kingdom further he lowered taxes, which made the people happy, and he gave local rulers more power (but not too much power), which made them happy. This decreased his power, but assured that he would stay in power. Judocus II therefore, when he became king, had the perfect opportunity to bring Biohaemia the glory it always deserved. In early 487, he led an army of 50,000, and a general, Kotzuk, led another army of 30,000, to conquer barbarians to the north... who really weren’t much more barbarian than Biohaemia itself. Regardless, by November 490, Biohaemia had almost doubled in size. This was still not enough for Judocus II, and he invaded the Huns, seeing an opportunity, as the Huns were also being attacked by the Eastern Romans and Slavs. The Huns were focused on fighting the Slavs and Biohaemia occupied large swaths of territory, almost easily. Biohaemia made peace with the Huns just a few months before the Eastern Romans and Slavs did.

Biohaemia wasn’t the only nation with an ambitious ruler at this time. Azipar of Langobardia invaded Francia, hoping to take the capital itself, Lutetia Parisorium. A massive army intruded on Francian land, heading for Lutetia Parisorium... but Francia was prepared. In fact, they had built extensive fortifications a few years before. However, Athanarius of Alemannia and Fraduric of Burgundia saw opportunities, and declared war on the Kingdom of Francia. This was something that Francia was most definitely not prepared for. The Alemannian, Burgundian, and Langobard armies charged into Francia and the Franks simply could not beat the combined enemies. To make matters worse, for the Franks anyway, the governor of the Remorica province declared independence. Suffice to say, Francia collapsed in 494, after barely more than a year of fighting. However the siege of Lutetia Parisorium lasted until 496. Langobardia also conquered barbarian tribes to the east, and coincidentally, the siege of Lutetia Parisorium, and the conquest of those tribes, were both concluded on the same day.

The new nations of Remorica was technically a continuation of Francia, and also the spiritual successor to Aremorica. However, it took on a much more Brythonic flavor, as its core lands were the same ones settled by Brythons before, during, and after the fall of the Roman Empire. In the Remorican dialect of Brython, the nation was known as Areimorca or sometimes as Fhrainca.

Khodadad II had conquered most of the known world. But his hunger for power led him to desire land even further than the Indus. And so in 490, he declared war on the Ahir Empire, to ‘spread the faith’. The Gupta, seeing that if the Zoharists conquered the Ahir, they would go after the rest of India, came to Ahir’s aid. Like the last war, the Zoharists were victorious, but this time, even more so, because they utilized many skilled Indian warriors, and utilized a large amount of elephants. By 495 a fifth of the Indian subcontinent had been conquered by the Rahbarate.

The palace in Constantinople, January 5th, 497:
“Dear emperor...” said one of the Eastern Roman Emperor’s advisors
“Yes?” stated Zeno II.
“...the Venedi have laid siege to Dionysopolis...”
“...”
“...and the Persians to Adana.”
 
Last edited:
Map separately:

remnants of rome12 - Copy.png

remnants of rome12 - Copy.png
 

tjvuse

Banned
I speculate that S.P.Q.R is busy repairing old infrastructure and expanding the old stuff as well as converting their population to Christianity to counter the threat of the Yehud Empire at the time of this excellent update.:cool:

Placing my bet that the Eastern Roman Empire might just last about another 100 years or so at its size now. any other bets:D
 
I am simply amazed at the update. I imagined the Huns being exterminated by the great Slavic hordes but it's a blessing that they remain however weak they are in the coast of Dalmatia. I can imagine the Huns having a much closer contact with the still majority Romance-speaking populations along the coastal towns. The Huns can shift from raiding and conquest to monopolizing the trade routes between the eastern and western portions of the Meditterraean. The local variety of Latin is still going to remain as the prestige language so I can see the Huns slowly assimilating into the Romance populations. The language would have a heavy Hunnic influence.

The Eastern Roman Empire I can see collapsing or at least the present dynasty due to the attacks by the Slavs and the Persian Zoharists. A military strongman who shares characteristics to Heraclius can certainly be the hope to save the empire from sure destruction and annihilation by their enemies. Anatolia is more heavily Hellenized than it had been before so I won't see that region falling into non-Roman hands unless you plan on having the Turkic tribes migrate into the Near East. In the chaos looming the empire, there is also the matter of the Germanic-Romance successor states in northern Italy; they might want a piece of the action to the south
 
I am simply amazed at the update. I imagined the Huns being exterminated by the great Slavic hordes but it's a blessing that they remain however weak they are in the coast of Dalmatia. I can imagine the Huns having a much closer contact with the still majority Romance-speaking populations along the coastal towns. The Huns can shift from raiding and conquest to monopolizing the trade routes between the eastern and western portions of the Meditterraean. The local variety of Latin is still going to remain as the prestige language so I can see the Huns slowly assimilating into the Romance populations. The language would have a heavy Hunnic influence.

The Eastern Roman Empire I can see collapsing or at least the present dynasty due to the attacks by the Slavs and the Persian Zoharists. A military strongman who shares characteristics to Heraclius can certainly be the hope to save the empire from sure destruction and annihilation by their enemies. Anatolia is more heavily Hellenized than it had been before so I won't see that region falling into non-Roman hands unless you plan on having the Turkic tribes migrate into the Near East. In the chaos looming the empire, there is also the matter of the Germanic-Romance successor states in northern Italy; they might want a piece of the action to the south

Well the Eastern Roman Empire seems thoroughly doomed to me. They're being attack from both sides, by two powers--one the most fierce barbarians in the world, and one the most fanatical soldiers in the world.
 
Well the Eastern Roman Empire seems thoroughly doomed to me. They're being attack from both sides, by two powers--one the most fierce barbarians in the world, and one the most fanatical soldiers in the world.

You still leave out most of Italy in Rhomanian lands unless you intend to have it as the basis for another successor kingdom.
 
Well the Eastern Roman Empire seems thoroughly doomed to me. They're being attack from both sides, by two powers--one the most fierce barbarians in the world, and one the most fanatical soldiers in the world.

Not necessarily. To the Romans this would be a war of survival, with losing meaning that they are partitioned between cannibalistic barbarians and radical heathens. The Romans would probably have also built a semi-competent defensive network between now and their last war with the Rahbarate.

Also consider that they could strike an alliance of convenience with Biohaemia, and could even ask the SPQR or any other willing nations for assistance.
 
Not necessarily. To the Romans this would be a war of survival, with losing meaning that they are partitioned between cannibalistic barbarians and radical heathens. The Romans would probably have also built a semi-competent defensive network between now and their last war with the Rahbarate.

Also consider that they could strike an alliance of convenience with Biohaemia, and could even ask the SPQR or any other willing nations for assistance.

I had the image of the SPQR fleet coming to aid the Rhomanians when the Zoharists and Slavs are besieging Constantinople using an analogue to Greek fire.
 
I had the image of the SPQR fleet coming to aid the Rhomanians when the Zoharists and Slavs are besieging Constantinople using an analogue to Greek fire.

I was mostly thinking an Invasion of Zoharists Africa by the SPQR, thus taking away Egypt and possible hurting the Rahbarate's supply of Grain, etc. Though that works too. :p
 
I was mostly thinking an Invasion of Zoharists Africa by the SPQR, thus taking away Egypt and possible hurting the Rahbarate's supply of Grain, etc. Though that works too. :p

At the moment I can't not fathom a reason why the Hispano-Romans [SPQR] would help their Eastern Roman counterparts in a war against an enemy that at the moment has no designs towards their lands. They probably see it as beneficial to them to see both empires fighting one another and that's not to mention the Slavs. I suppose that the Hispano-Romans could provide naval assistance to Rhomania if the two forces come to besiege Constantinople. As for expansion, I don't think the empire has the resources to conquer that much land. Perhaps cause a little rift among the ranks of the Rahbarate would be damage enough. Maybe bribing the local governor or general placed in charge of the region to declare independence.
 
Just finished reading through this, and this really is pretty much the best TL out there now :) . Can't wait for the next update!

Some questions and requests...
1. What are the internal politics of the Western Roman Empire now? Still a monarchy?

2. Could you please, PLEASE, not have India conquered by the crazy Zoharists? I'm half-Indian and I'm always looking for India to do well. Conquered by Zoharists does not equal doing well in my book.

3. Has any of the changes in the Mediterranean had any effect on China or sub-Saharan Africa? Or is it just like in OTL?
 
I doubt SPQR has the power projection to go take over egypt, but they might help out against the Slavs/Persians in exchange for Southern Italy, or at least Sicily.
 
Just finished reading through this, and this really is pretty much the best TL out there now :) . Can't wait for the next update!

Some questions and requests...
1. What are the internal politics of the Western Roman Empire now? Still a monarchy?

2. Could you please, PLEASE, not have India conquered by the crazy Zoharists? I'm half-Indian and I'm always looking for India to do well. Conquered by Zoharists does not equal doing well in my book.

3. Has any of the changes in the Mediterranean had any effect on China or sub-Saharan Africa? Or is it just like in OTL?

1: Still a monarchy/empire; they simply label themselves SPQR. Soon there will be some reforms though.

2: Well the Caliphate did, after existing for a long time, bring stability and prosperity to its lands. If the Zoharists conquer India, then once it becomes an integral part of the Rahbarate, it will be prosperous. The Rahbarate has only one restriction on non-Zoharists, a tax.

If India is conquered, stays in the Rahbarate for a while, and breaks away, then it will overall be better off.

Plus Zoharism has no real divisions within it yet; perhaps Hindu influence could make its way in and form a new Indian Zoharism.

3: There will be a slight effect and some butterflied-away events.
 
Last edited:
Top