Oh I totally agre with Britannia remaining a patchwork, I didn't think it should be changed. I meant in the North-West of England a specific Romano-British kingdom could be founded, as the last indepedent "Welsh" Roman areas and Romano-Brython areas are close by. If they united they could provide a better detterent to what looks like strong westerly expansion by the Saxons. It could be usueful to fight off the Picts/Scots if they come into the equation too.
Remnants of Rome
- Thread starter Zuvarq
- Start date
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Or the Norse later on in the coming centuries if the factors remain similar for them to expand beyond their home regions.
I'm loving this timeline, just thought I could ask you to consider a few ideas' I've had while reading, perhaps for future updates?
1. How about the Picts/Scots coming into the diverse equation in Britannia? With all that bickering and inter cultural fighting it looks an awful lot vulnerable to a northern invasion.
2. I was thinking in the north west of England where the remaining Brython-Roman kingdoms are (I say this because I'm from there!) you might want to try a unified Romano-British kingdom with an Arthur-esque figure to lead them. I think this would be a good way to make the Britannia situation even more interesting.
3. As for the Taurigoths, they've been sitting there in the Bosphorus for sometime now, "twiddling there thumbs". How about they begin to constrcut a small navy for raiding purposes (a little like the Vikings maybe?) and prey upon the weakening Rhomania?
Loving where this is all going and just thought I should post these ideas as I think they would be great in the timeline. Whatever you do, I look forward to the next chapter as this is really a quality timeline mate.
1: Heh, that was actually going to happen in the next update
2: Hmm, maybe it can have something to do with a Votadini or Friede invasion, and mostly-but-not-completely-unified 'league' led by the Arthur-like figure
3: I was planning on having them settle the Danube Anglo-Saxon-style in the chaos
Whenever you mention SPQR's military affairs, you always mention legions. So I guess my question is how exactly is the army structured these days, and what kind of armaments are they using now they're not dependant on the foederati? Also, what are the comparative states of the barbarian kingdoms' armies?
Most important is the romans though!
In this Rome, a legion is 5,000-10,000 men, split into 10 cohorts of 500-1,000 each, split into 2 minor cohorts of 250-500 men each, with a total of . Each of these units has someone who leads it, but I just refer to all of them as generals
The composition of the legions varies. Some are composed of seasoned professionals, some are composed of levied citizenry, and few are composed of foederati.
Armaments... same as ever. Spears, swords, bows, big rectangular shields and medium sized ovaloid shields, etc.
Well same as ever... So are the scuta of old back? Because in OTL they dropped the rectangles for exclusiely ovals, and their helmets got cheaper and cheaper. Is this Roman Empire still using pila or have they abandoned them for the plumbata? I guess there's no real chance of them having segmentata, but are they using early empire style hamata, or is there some lamellar going on in the west?
Sorry, I'm forming mental images. You don't really have to respond to most of that, but something that is important, is what is the population of Rome itself like?
The foederati and the levied troops received crappy/cheap helmets and hamata, with the foederati receiving the parma shields and the levied troops receiving scuta. The seasoned professional troops are armored with segmentata, the good helmets, and scuta. Same for generals.
Usually at least one minor cohort in a legion will all wield plumbata.
Regarding the population of the city of Rome itself, if you're talking about the social classes, I don't really know, except that slavery continues as it does in the West. If you're talking about demographics, the amount of Greeks within the city is increasing dramatically as Greeks flee from the Hun-occupied lands. The 'real Romans' are still by far the majority though. Also, the Visigoths and other barbarians have been banished from the city, some were enslaved.
Sorry to ask so many questions. Yeah, you answered basically everything I really wanted to know. It's really good of you to be so involved in answering questions around here. I know I'd be sick of it. So.... thanks! Good luck with the creative juices.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
As in the early Islamic Caliphate, most of the population continues to follow the local religions which is at this point a form of Christianity though the poster has introduced a form of the tribute tax. They are one empire, for now it seems.
A POSSE AD ESSE
Britannia was exhausted. Decades of fighting itself made it weak, both outside and within the Holy Roman Empire. But to the north, the chief of the Votadini Empire, Rhodri, felt as if his empire was stronger than ever, and the Gods were on his side. And so in 484, he invaded the Brython-Roman states, massing an army of 130,000 raiders, many of them mercenaries because the Votadini’s own population had been somewhat depleted. But Rhodri was a megalomaniac, and so he carried on with the invasion anyway. The rest of the Holy Roman Empire declared war on Votadini, although only Friede contributed many troops. The massive army had initial success. In a year half of the Brython-Roman states had been occupied. But while Votadini had this success, Londinium, Corinium, and the other Holy Roman states built awe-inspiring armies of their own. In April 485, 210,000 troops from various Holy Roman nations arrived on the battlefield. To make matters worse (for the Votadini), the Brython-Roman states had united into a confederation led by a Grand Emperor, the first being named Gorlaconus. This confederation was known as Luguvales, or Luguvallia. Lastly, the Pict barbarians invaded from the North.
The Votadini Empire collapsed within 2 months. A chief and general named Talorc founded a united Pict kingdom from the land taken from the Votadini. He then made an agreement with the other Pict tribes and formed a Grand Chiefdom. The Grand Empire of Luguvales or Luguvallia captured a sizable portion of land, including the city of Luguvallium, upon which the region of Luguvallia, and the Grand Empire inhabiting it, was named. And the Friede too had conquered a sizable bit of land, including the city of Arbeia, which was renamed Ardrecken. The Votadini Empire remained in existence, but lost most of its land and even its capital. Rhodri was hanged by several officials, who were formerly his closest friends and supporters.
In addition, the Bishop of Londinium, the Pope of Britannia, Leo III, with support from the Emperors of Londinium and Corinium, declared the Edict of Londinium, establishing a system where each nation of the Holy Roman Empire would elect an Emperor from the leaders of the various kingdoms of the Empire. Only the states which had Latin as a state language (no statement was made about Christianity, however, as all the states were already Christian) would be electors or be eligible to become the Holy Roman Emperor. As a result the Brython-Roman states made Latin the state language (and now they were basically Roman states). Friede and Venteade made Latin into the second state language with Saxon and Frisian being used in non-diplomatic matters. But of course, the population of the formerly Brython-Roman states spoke primarily Brython or Latin, and the populations of Friede and Venteade mainly spoke Saxon and Frisian, with large minorities of Brython and Latin speakers.
Khodadad “the Great” died in April 480. His plans, however, did not die with him. His son, Khodadad II Yehudahid, three days after ascending to the throne, appointed himself as the Grand General Commander of the Faithful. In May, he, several generals, 135 other military officials, and 80,000 troops massed in Nabatea. Arabia was populated by dirty, heathen barbarians just like everywhere else that didn’t fly the flag of the Rahbarate. Therefore it needed to be taught the True Faith. Khodadad II found that swords were the best way to teach people the true way of Ahura God. According to the Târikh, to kill a man was Antichrist[1], but to kill an unbeliever in the name of Ahura God was Christ.
Khodadad II and his army marched southward along the coast of Arabia. Arabian tribes, were, for one, tribes, and also lived in the harsh Arabian desert. The Rahbar’s army outnumbered the entire population of many of the Arabian tribes it fought. The main challenge faced by Khodadad II and his army was the climate; Egypt and Mesopotamia were hot, but at least they had rivers. 30,000 troops died from thirst.
By January 481 the Rahbar’s army had conquered about half of the coast of western Arabia. Khodadad II and most of his army ceased the campaign, placing some of his officials to administrate the new region, and leaving 10,000 troops there, and ventured back north. Next time the Zoharists would be prepared. Khodadad II ordered his military and governmental officials to procure 50,000 camels and 2,000 elephants. In February 482, Khodadad II and an army of 80,000 troops, about 50,000 of them on camels, 15,000 on horses, and 15,000 on foot, were all equipped with hollowed-out gourds to store water along with their weapons and light armor. When tribes were conquered, mercenaries were hired and they provided an advantage, being skilled at desert warfare. In addition, reinforcements of men and supplies arrived from the Persian Gulf. Five months later, in July, the Zoharist army reached the southern tip of the peninsula. By now 30,000 of the original troops were left, 20,000 Arab mercenaries were in the army, and 20,000 were reinforcements. However most of the camels had survived from the beginning of the campaign.
Khodadad II described this region, the southern tip of Arabia, as ‘Lucky Arabia’. It was much greener and less dry than the rest of the peninsula. The greenness of the region couldn’t be savored for long and the army immediately headed northeast. From eastern Arabia, heading southwest, came an army of 40,000. In May 483 the armies met along the coast and returned to Nabatea, arriving in August.
Now that the barbarians were taken care of, it was now time to head east. Khodadad II assembled another massive army, this time 160,000 strong, 15,000 of those being from the newly conquered areas of Arabia. In June 485 Khodadad II invaded the Ahir Empire which prospered, having most of the Indus and Punjab. The battles were massive and the Ahir Empire fielded thousands of elephants. But the morale, fanaticism, and sheer numbers of the Zoharist soldiers led them to prevail within a year. In June 485, peace was made and all of the Ahir Empire’s land to the west of the Indus was ceded to the Rahbarate.
In the Balkans, the Venedi Slavs raged south into the Gepid Empire, starting in 483, with the capture of the Gepid capital, Gibidaz. Certainly a terrible way to start the war, from the Gepid perspective, anyway. 200,000 Venedi Slavs, every single one of them mounted on horses, rampaged through the land, sacking the towns and villages they found, where they could find them, though most Gepids were nomadic. However the Slavs even stole their tents. Within two years, in November 485, the Gepids were overthrown completely by the Venedi Slavs with the capture of Noviodunum.
The Eastern Roman Emperor Zeno II was impressed by the Venedi Slavs’ power. He formally created an alliance with them in January 486. Subsequently, both nations invaded the Ostrogothic Kingdom.
[1] In Zoharism, Christ and Antichrist are states of being. Like how ‘acceptable’ foods in Islam and Judaism are halal and kosher respectively, things can be either Christ or Antichrist. Good is Christ, Evil is Antichrist. According to the Zoharists, Ahura Mazda condones Christ actions and condemns Antichrist actions, however, his own actions are completely neutral.
Britannia was exhausted. Decades of fighting itself made it weak, both outside and within the Holy Roman Empire. But to the north, the chief of the Votadini Empire, Rhodri, felt as if his empire was stronger than ever, and the Gods were on his side. And so in 484, he invaded the Brython-Roman states, massing an army of 130,000 raiders, many of them mercenaries because the Votadini’s own population had been somewhat depleted. But Rhodri was a megalomaniac, and so he carried on with the invasion anyway. The rest of the Holy Roman Empire declared war on Votadini, although only Friede contributed many troops. The massive army had initial success. In a year half of the Brython-Roman states had been occupied. But while Votadini had this success, Londinium, Corinium, and the other Holy Roman states built awe-inspiring armies of their own. In April 485, 210,000 troops from various Holy Roman nations arrived on the battlefield. To make matters worse (for the Votadini), the Brython-Roman states had united into a confederation led by a Grand Emperor, the first being named Gorlaconus. This confederation was known as Luguvales, or Luguvallia. Lastly, the Pict barbarians invaded from the North.
The Votadini Empire collapsed within 2 months. A chief and general named Talorc founded a united Pict kingdom from the land taken from the Votadini. He then made an agreement with the other Pict tribes and formed a Grand Chiefdom. The Grand Empire of Luguvales or Luguvallia captured a sizable portion of land, including the city of Luguvallium, upon which the region of Luguvallia, and the Grand Empire inhabiting it, was named. And the Friede too had conquered a sizable bit of land, including the city of Arbeia, which was renamed Ardrecken. The Votadini Empire remained in existence, but lost most of its land and even its capital. Rhodri was hanged by several officials, who were formerly his closest friends and supporters.
In addition, the Bishop of Londinium, the Pope of Britannia, Leo III, with support from the Emperors of Londinium and Corinium, declared the Edict of Londinium, establishing a system where each nation of the Holy Roman Empire would elect an Emperor from the leaders of the various kingdoms of the Empire. Only the states which had Latin as a state language (no statement was made about Christianity, however, as all the states were already Christian) would be electors or be eligible to become the Holy Roman Emperor. As a result the Brython-Roman states made Latin the state language (and now they were basically Roman states). Friede and Venteade made Latin into the second state language with Saxon and Frisian being used in non-diplomatic matters. But of course, the population of the formerly Brython-Roman states spoke primarily Brython or Latin, and the populations of Friede and Venteade mainly spoke Saxon and Frisian, with large minorities of Brython and Latin speakers.
Khodadad “the Great” died in April 480. His plans, however, did not die with him. His son, Khodadad II Yehudahid, three days after ascending to the throne, appointed himself as the Grand General Commander of the Faithful. In May, he, several generals, 135 other military officials, and 80,000 troops massed in Nabatea. Arabia was populated by dirty, heathen barbarians just like everywhere else that didn’t fly the flag of the Rahbarate. Therefore it needed to be taught the True Faith. Khodadad II found that swords were the best way to teach people the true way of Ahura God. According to the Târikh, to kill a man was Antichrist[1], but to kill an unbeliever in the name of Ahura God was Christ.
Khodadad II and his army marched southward along the coast of Arabia. Arabian tribes, were, for one, tribes, and also lived in the harsh Arabian desert. The Rahbar’s army outnumbered the entire population of many of the Arabian tribes it fought. The main challenge faced by Khodadad II and his army was the climate; Egypt and Mesopotamia were hot, but at least they had rivers. 30,000 troops died from thirst.
By January 481 the Rahbar’s army had conquered about half of the coast of western Arabia. Khodadad II and most of his army ceased the campaign, placing some of his officials to administrate the new region, and leaving 10,000 troops there, and ventured back north. Next time the Zoharists would be prepared. Khodadad II ordered his military and governmental officials to procure 50,000 camels and 2,000 elephants. In February 482, Khodadad II and an army of 80,000 troops, about 50,000 of them on camels, 15,000 on horses, and 15,000 on foot, were all equipped with hollowed-out gourds to store water along with their weapons and light armor. When tribes were conquered, mercenaries were hired and they provided an advantage, being skilled at desert warfare. In addition, reinforcements of men and supplies arrived from the Persian Gulf. Five months later, in July, the Zoharist army reached the southern tip of the peninsula. By now 30,000 of the original troops were left, 20,000 Arab mercenaries were in the army, and 20,000 were reinforcements. However most of the camels had survived from the beginning of the campaign.
Khodadad II described this region, the southern tip of Arabia, as ‘Lucky Arabia’. It was much greener and less dry than the rest of the peninsula. The greenness of the region couldn’t be savored for long and the army immediately headed northeast. From eastern Arabia, heading southwest, came an army of 40,000. In May 483 the armies met along the coast and returned to Nabatea, arriving in August.
Now that the barbarians were taken care of, it was now time to head east. Khodadad II assembled another massive army, this time 160,000 strong, 15,000 of those being from the newly conquered areas of Arabia. In June 485 Khodadad II invaded the Ahir Empire which prospered, having most of the Indus and Punjab. The battles were massive and the Ahir Empire fielded thousands of elephants. But the morale, fanaticism, and sheer numbers of the Zoharist soldiers led them to prevail within a year. In June 485, peace was made and all of the Ahir Empire’s land to the west of the Indus was ceded to the Rahbarate.
In the Balkans, the Venedi Slavs raged south into the Gepid Empire, starting in 483, with the capture of the Gepid capital, Gibidaz. Certainly a terrible way to start the war, from the Gepid perspective, anyway. 200,000 Venedi Slavs, every single one of them mounted on horses, rampaged through the land, sacking the towns and villages they found, where they could find them, though most Gepids were nomadic. However the Slavs even stole their tents. Within two years, in November 485, the Gepids were overthrown completely by the Venedi Slavs with the capture of Noviodunum.
The Eastern Roman Emperor Zeno II was impressed by the Venedi Slavs’ power. He formally created an alliance with them in January 486. Subsequently, both nations invaded the Ostrogothic Kingdom.
[1] In Zoharism, Christ and Antichrist are states of being. Like how ‘acceptable’ foods in Islam and Judaism are halal and kosher respectively, things can be either Christ or Antichrist. Good is Christ, Evil is Antichrist. According to the Zoharists, Ahura Mazda condones Christ actions and condemns Antichrist actions, however, his own actions are completely neutral.
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tjvuse
Banned
It would probable help the Eastern Roman Empire to with draw out of Italy so it can free up more troops to concentrate on defeating the Huns and other hostile Empires around it.
Weather this idea is realistic or not is an other matter for the author Xwarq of this entertaining time line to decide.
Weather this idea is realistic or not is an other matter for the author Xwarq of this entertaining time line to decide
.Well then they'd lose Rome. So I don't think they'd withdraw entirely.It would probable help the Eastern Roman Empire to with draw out of Italy so it can free up more troops to concentrate on defeating the Huns and other hostile Empires around it.
Weather this idea is realistic or not is an other matter for the author Xwarq of this entertaining time line to decide
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Somehow I know from assuming from what has happened to the Byzantine Empire in our own time-line that the Venedi Slavs are going to end up two-timing the Rhomanians at some point in the future. I can not see them just settle for just pieces of Ostrogoth territory when right over the horizon lies the ultimate prize for any barbarian tribe to hold, the imperial city of Constantinople but not at the moment. There are still the Huns to deal with and you did the mention the influx of the Slavs into that area like in OTL.
And I'm guessing most of the Romance-speaking populations left in Dacia have been assimilated, migrated into Rhomanian lands or have been exterminated by the Slavs?
And I'm guessing most of the Romance-speaking populations left in Dacia have been assimilated, migrated into Rhomanian lands or have been exterminated by the Slavs?
wolf_brother
Banned
I'm surprised the Rahbarate didn't venture further down the Nile and conquer or extract tribute from the minor kingdoms that are propped up and down the river. They might even reach as far as Ethiopia, as OTL the Ayyubids & Ottomans did.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
The guy probably didn't think it was important. I can assume that much of the African states based around the Nile are set up as tributary states
That's assuming they remain united.
The Roman populations there still exist, but are marginalized by the Gepids and influx of Slavs.
Well at the moment, the Zoharists own more of Nubia than the Caliphate(s) ever did, because the Eastern Romans didn't lose it to 'barbarians' prior to it being captured.
Rex Romanum
Banned
Wow...very interesting...
I wonder what would happened to OTL France and Germany in the future...?
And about Hunnic Kingdom in Dalmatia...did it really the 'Huns'...?
I mean, did they really the same Huns that fought under Attila, or it just a shadow of its past...?
And BTW, would we see the Zoharists invade India...? Is it possible for them to do that...?
All in all, good timeline...
I wonder what would happened to OTL France and Germany in the future...?
And about Hunnic Kingdom in Dalmatia...did it really the 'Huns'...?
I mean, did they really the same Huns that fought under Attila, or it just a shadow of its past...?
And BTW, would we see the Zoharists invade India...? Is it possible for them to do that...?
All in all, good timeline...
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Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I would see it to be more interesting if the Zoharists expand in a different direction than their OTL Islamic analogues. Maybe try capturing Anatolia and parts of the Balkans?
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I agree. It would be cool to see the Zoharists to try to conquer europe
And maybe even conquer Constantinople!