Did Germany suffer a bigger national trauma after World War 1 or 2?

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

It’s obvious that Germany after World War 1 suffered a big psychological trauma. After losing an entire generation in the battlefield... and lost, they also had to deal with a humiliating treaty with harsh reparations and having shame attached to their name. What drove the Germans mad was that they lost land that was naturally German for hundreds of years (think of it as USA losing California or Britain losing Wales). This psychological trauma and emotional pain lead to Weimar culture with all the nightclubs, Weimar cinema, surrealism, jazz culture in Germany, ect. Did Germany suffer the same psychological scars after World War 2, and if so, was it worse than the one they suffered after World War 1, especially since this was a second time in less than half a century losing a major war as well as losing even more land? Did this national trauma gave birth to German subculture the same way World War 1 did?

 

[CV(N)-6]

In WW2, the Germans committed Genocide and had their country split and two, whereas after WW1, they got a harsh treaty and a depression, I think WW2.

 

[Lalli]

WW2. The country was ruined and got even harsher post-war treatmen. And revelation of whole horrors of Holocaust and tainting reputation of Germany and Germans for many years. Germany was too occupied and divided in four decades. Furthermore hundreds of thousands Germans were expelled from places where they had lived several generations and on Eastern occupation zone Germans had suffer from Communist dictatorship four decades.

Altough Germany recovered quiet rapidly from WW2 Nazism left very traumatic heritage to Germany and the world.

 

[Jack Brisco]

Indeed, WW2. Matter of fact, would say Germany is still recovering from the trauma of committing the Holocaust.

 

[Whiteshore]

Furthermore hundreds of thousands Germans were expelled from places where they had lived several generations

Make that millions. In total, about ten million were expelled from their homes (or fled beforehand) in which they had lived for centuries and they formed a major bloc in politics in the nascent FRG as well.

 

[Captain Homicide]

Being totally controlled by arguably the most evil and malevolent political regime in history that started a continental war, killed 15+ million people in pursuit of a New Order where the master race ruled, created murder factories (which no other group has replicated) and then went down in the most intense war in history would be far more traumatic for a country than anything after WW1 .

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

What drove the Germans mad was that they lost land that was naturally German for hundreds of years ...

What land was that?

Alsace-Lorraine, which was seized in 1870? Posen, seized in 1795? Northern Schleswig, seized in 1865?

Czechia, which had been ruled by Austria, not Germany, and was predominantly non-German? South Tyrol, which had been ruled by Austria, not Germany, and which German irredentists barely mentioned?

Upper Silesia? Memel? Danzig?

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

What land was that?

Alsace-Lorraine, which was seized in 1870? Posen, seized in 1795? Northern Schleswig, seized in 1865?

Czechia, which had been ruled by Austria, not Germany, and was predominantly non-German? South Tyrol, which had been ruled by Austria, not Germany, and which German irredentists barely mentioned?

Upper Silesia? Memel? Danzig?

East Prussia

 

[Lalli]

East Prussia

East Prussia was lost after WW2 not after WW1.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

East Prussia was lost after WW2 not after WW1.

My bad, read the guys post wrong however there were German people's who had been living in non-German territory for hundreds of years. that had bordered Germany before it annexed those lands in the 1700/1800s.

 

[Crazymachines]

WW2, no contest

 

[flippikat]

WW2, for all the reasons described above.. plus on a cultural level, art in Germany was forced to look forward to a futuristic perspective instead of building on cultural touchstones from their heritage. That's a huge shift to a nation's psyche.

 

[A Piece of History]

In World War I, all the Germans lost was 30% of their pre-war territory (correct me if I'm wrong on that). The war barely touched Germany itself. And I mean, physically. Of course the war touched Germany in a social and political manner.

In World War II, the whole country was burned to the ground and made into pawns in a 46 year long geopolitical staring contest. To quote Bomber Harris, Germany reaped the whirlwind of the modern war they inflicted on Europe. Keep in mind that even 80 years after World War II, Berlin still hasn't achieved the population it had before the war.

 

[Albidoom]

In World War I, all the Germans lost was 30% of their pre-war territory (correct me if I'm wrong on that).

More like 14% and what territory they lost wasn't even that much German speaking (most if not all Alsatians preferred to be part of France anyways)

Theoretically they could have claimed/pretended that they had the wisdom to give up when the war became unwinnable and avoided dragging the fight across German soil (and by doing so keeping some kind of moral high ground), but instead the military leadership fabricated the stab in the back myth and the emperor fled the country...

 

[A Piece of History]

Theoretically they could have claimed/pretended that they had the wisdom to give up when the war became unwinnable and avoided dragging the fight across German soil (and by doing so keeping some kind of moral high ground), but instead the military leadership fabricated the stab in the back myth and the emperor fled the country...

And hence, why the Allies devised their policy of unconditional surrender in 1943. They did not want that myth returning.

 

[Dorknought]

In 1918 the German people:

• had lost the war they were not supposed to lose
• the military, economy and empire they had grown up with was gone
• it was replaced with revolution
• they had been hungry for a long time
• everyone had lost family
• they were lumped with reparations that they were supposed to inflict on others
• hyper-inflation wiped out their life savings.

From 1914 they had come down to rock bottom without physical destruction

From 1939 they had not really recovered from 1918 but 1945 added complete physical destruction.

I'd say 1914 down to 1918 was a greater psychological shock than 1939 to 1945. However it's only up from here.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

From my experience with old persons and written testimonials, 1918 reinforced German beliefs in their alleged historical mission and so-called traditional values, while 1945 marked the destruction of almost everything Germany had stood for since 1871 and, in many ways, a new beginning.

It's not a trauma, though. By 1945, most people were glad that the war had ended, and many thought that this is now the opportunity to rebuild a better Germany. If you're looking for traumata which are discussed as such, the hyperinflation and the Holocaust qualify better...

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

I will go with Dorknought.

IMHO in 1919 the German people could not understand how, or even believe, they had been defeated. The death toll was unprecedented. The myth of the unbeaten army and the stab in the back sustained many for a while in the belief that Germany was brought down from within.

1945 it was obvious who had lost the war and why. The second time is always easier to accept.

 

[Garrison]

What drove the Germans mad was that they lost land that was naturally German for hundreds of years (think of it as USA losing California or Britain losing Wales). This psychological trauma and emotional pain lead to Weimar culture with all the nightclubs, Weimar cinema, surrealism, jazz culture in Germany, ect.

Sorry but claiming Germans went mad based on bits of culture that bypassed the bulk of the German people is akin to analysing WWI based on the writings of the British war poets. It also smacks of making an insanity plea to explain why so many of them supported the Nazi's in the 1930s.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

How is this even a question? WW2's aftermath was VASTLY worse than after WW1.

From my experience with old persons and written testimonials, 1918 reinforced German beliefs in their alleged historical mission and so-called traditional values, while 1945 marked the destruction of almost everything Germany had stood for since 1871 and, in many ways, a new beginning.

It's not a trauma, though. By 1945, most people were glad that the war had ended, and many thought that this is now the opportunity to rebuild a better Germany. If you're looking for traumata which are discussed as such, the hyperinflation and the Holocaust qualify better...

Destruction of everything a nation is and was isn't a national trauma? Millions of rapes and destruction of every city over 20k people plus the loss of more than twice as many people is less traumatic? Having to reckon with Nazi warcrimes and rebuilding the country under harsh occupation isn't traumatic?