Military Aircraft that should have entered service
- Thread starter Matt Wiser
- Start date
Deleted member 1487
Thanks, I'm at work and can't really look up weapons and stuff here.
- The Short Sperrin if development if started a few years earlier in 1943 to provide a basic jet engined bomber post-war, thus allowing the Vickers Valiant to not be needed.
- The Miles M.52 could have beaten the Bell X-1 to breaking the sound barrier, doing so taking off and landing under its own power rather than having to be rocket powered and dropped from a bomber.
- The Hawker P.1081 'Australian Fighter' could have provided an advanced fighter for both the FAA and RAF as Britain's equivalent to the North American F-86 Sabre, later evolving along the lines of the F-100 Super Sabre.
- The Vickers V-1000 airliner which would have allowed the UK at least a fighting chance against the US in the commercial aircraft market as a competitor for the Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8. Cheating slightly but get to slip this one in as it was originally specified for the RAF, would also likely be developed into an aerial refueling tanker.
- The Fairey Delta 2 could have been Britain's answer to the Dassault Mirage III, I have in the past wondered about a combined Anglo-French project – either with Dassault or another company like NORD
- As an alternative to the TSR-2 one of the proposed supersonic versions of the Blackburn Buccaneer.
- Proposed SEPECAT Jaguar variant with enlarged wings giving better performance and less jokes about takeoffs being as much about the curvature of the earth as anything else. IIRC there was a standard Jaguar they experimentally fitted fly-by-wire to which greatly increased performance but that's never a realistic production idea.
- The timing is tricky but the British Aerospace P.1216 would provide a good V/STOL replacement for the Harrier, potentially also allowing the Lockheed Martin F-35 to dispense with the B model.
What is better about the Kingfish versus the Lockheed design?i'd go with the Grumman F11F-1F super tiger
and the alternative to the SR71 the Convair Kingfish
The problem is in the post WW2 time frame we have seen a lot of aircraft get cut for cost and or teeth problems usu after HUGE. Money is spent on them. The 2 billion per B2 being an example. They cost that when you divid the development cost by the aircraft built. But you are not going to get your development money back if you don’t build the aircraft.
Think of how many aircraft have problems to start with then turn out well in the end vs how few are perfect out of the gate.
In more then a few examples if we spent the money and fixed the issue we may be better off in the long run. Yes the F22 May be expensive but whatever we replace it with is going to ultimately cost more as thing simply get more expensive and we will need to start design all over again with its built in costs. And eventually the F15 and F16s will need to be replaced as you can only fly a high g fighter so long before it falls apart.
Looking back on it an updated F14 would have been a bargain and based on the search for new helicopters perhaps we should have built the RH-66? or any number of other aircraft
Think of how many aircraft have problems to start with then turn out well in the end vs how few are perfect out of the gate.
In more then a few examples if we spent the money and fixed the issue we may be better off in the long run. Yes the F22 May be expensive but whatever we replace it with is going to ultimately cost more as thing simply get more expensive and we will need to start design all over again with its built in costs. And eventually the F15 and F16s will need to be replaced as you can only fly a high g fighter so long before it falls apart.
Looking back on it an updated F14 would have been a bargain and based on the search for new helicopters perhaps we should have built the RH-66? or any number of other aircraft
SsgtC
Banned
The Super Tiger was truly the biggest loser in the Lockheed bribery scandal. It almost perfectly met the requirements of multiple Air Forces around the world, yet it failed to garner a single order due to the bribes paid by Lockheed.i'd go with the Grumman F11F-1F super tiger
and the alternative to the SR71 the Convair Kingfish
Northrop Grumman YF-23 Black Widow II
Kyushu J7W Shinden (Even if the war is over, this thing should used as a Post-war aircraft)
Dassault Mirage IIIV (That would make fair with the Harrier)
Yakovlev Yak-141 Freestyle
Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle (As another cheaper counterpart to the F-22 and the F-35)
Mikoyan Ye-155
Convair Pogo
XF-85 Goblin
Horton Ho229
Kyushu J7W Shinden (Even if the war is over, this thing should used as a Post-war aircraft)
Dassault Mirage IIIV (That would make fair with the Harrier)
Yakovlev Yak-141 Freestyle
Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle (As another cheaper counterpart to the F-22 and the F-35)
Mikoyan Ye-155
Convair Pogo
XF-85 Goblin
Horton Ho229
The Pogo? Unless a reliable why of landing the beast at sea is developed what's the point. The only option I can think of that might have worked is if the pilot could have snagged a wire of some sort and been winched down onto the deck.
The Bristol 133 should have been adopted instead of the Gloster Gladiator if it had not crashed due to pilot error just before service trials.
I would have loved to see the Hawker P.1121 enter service. A Mach 2.5-capable interceptor and ground-attacker. It could have been the British equivalent of the F-4 Phantom. Instead it was one of the many victims of Duncan Sandys.
A few more:
Beechcraft A-38 Grizzly: designed to be a tank buster in Europe and a close-support aircraft in the planned invasion of Japan. Designed with a 75-mm cannon in the nose along with two .50 caliber machine guns, plus two remote turrets (dorsal and ventral) with twin .50s. The aircraft was easily serviced and maintained in the field, and met or exceeded all AAF requirements for its mission. However, it had one problem: it used the same Wright engines as the B-29, and guess what had higher priority?
Boeing XPBB-1 Sea Ranger: called by some the best flying boat the Navy never had. Planned to be built at Boeing-Renton, and it, too, met or exceeded all requirements. The AAF, though, wanted Boeing to concentrate on B-29s, and Hap Arnold convinced Admiral King to cancel the Sea Ranger and free up Renton for the B-29 program. King insisted on deal, and Arnold agreed to divert 977 B-24s to the Navy (as the PB4Y-1) to make up for losing the Sea Ranger. It too, used the same Wright R-3350 engines as the B-29: another reason for the AAF's intervention.
Consolidated TBY-2 Sea Wolf: one of two intended replacements for the TBD Devastator. The Navy ordered both the TBF and TBU (original designation as it was a Vought Aircraft design); with the Navy ordering 1,000 TBUs before the prototype had even flown. The need for F4U Corsairs meant that Consolidated had to pick up the slack, but delays in building the new factor in Allentown, PA (not finished until late '43) meant that the Avenger wound up equipping Navy and Marine torpedo squadrons. Some hanky-panky among Consolidated Execs didn't help-and attracted the attention of the Truman Committee....two of those execs wound up in Federal Prison. The first training squadron didn't equip until late '44, and it wasn't until May '45 that VT-154 equipped with the aircraft. They were working up to deploy when the war ended, and were disbanded without having made even a peacetime deployment. Only 180 built, 820 of the -2 version were canceled, along with 600 of an improved TBY-3 version.
A/FX: no designation had been assigned, but this was a planned two-seat variable geometry aircraft for both the Navy and AF for the deep-strike mission. Intended as the replacement for both the A-6 and the F-15E, McDonnell-Douglas, Lockheed and Boeing in a team proposal, and Northrop, all submitted proposals. The program was terminated and folded into what became the Joint Strike Fighter program in the early Clinton Administration. The aircraft would've been a stealth aircraft, with internal weapons bays, but would've also had the ability to carry external weapons pylons when stealth was not considered to be a factor in a mission.
Beechcraft A-38 Grizzly: designed to be a tank buster in Europe and a close-support aircraft in the planned invasion of Japan. Designed with a 75-mm cannon in the nose along with two .50 caliber machine guns, plus two remote turrets (dorsal and ventral) with twin .50s. The aircraft was easily serviced and maintained in the field, and met or exceeded all AAF requirements for its mission. However, it had one problem: it used the same Wright engines as the B-29, and guess what had higher priority?
Boeing XPBB-1 Sea Ranger: called by some the best flying boat the Navy never had. Planned to be built at Boeing-Renton, and it, too, met or exceeded all requirements. The AAF, though, wanted Boeing to concentrate on B-29s, and Hap Arnold convinced Admiral King to cancel the Sea Ranger and free up Renton for the B-29 program. King insisted on deal, and Arnold agreed to divert 977 B-24s to the Navy (as the PB4Y-1) to make up for losing the Sea Ranger. It too, used the same Wright R-3350 engines as the B-29: another reason for the AAF's intervention.
Consolidated TBY-2 Sea Wolf: one of two intended replacements for the TBD Devastator. The Navy ordered both the TBF and TBU (original designation as it was a Vought Aircraft design); with the Navy ordering 1,000 TBUs before the prototype had even flown. The need for F4U Corsairs meant that Consolidated had to pick up the slack, but delays in building the new factor in Allentown, PA (not finished until late '43) meant that the Avenger wound up equipping Navy and Marine torpedo squadrons. Some hanky-panky among Consolidated Execs didn't help-and attracted the attention of the Truman Committee....two of those execs wound up in Federal Prison. The first training squadron didn't equip until late '44, and it wasn't until May '45 that VT-154 equipped with the aircraft. They were working up to deploy when the war ended, and were disbanded without having made even a peacetime deployment. Only 180 built, 820 of the -2 version were canceled, along with 600 of an improved TBY-3 version.
A/FX: no designation had been assigned, but this was a planned two-seat variable geometry aircraft for both the Navy and AF for the deep-strike mission. Intended as the replacement for both the A-6 and the F-15E, McDonnell-Douglas, Lockheed and Boeing in a team proposal, and Northrop, all submitted proposals. The program was terminated and folded into what became the Joint Strike Fighter program in the early Clinton Administration. The aircraft would've been a stealth aircraft, with internal weapons bays, but would've also had the ability to carry external weapons pylons when stealth was not considered to be a factor in a mission.
We don't know how the Grizzly was easily serviced and mantained in the field, it never gotten there.
If USAAF needs a tank buster, the A-20 armed with 57mm will do the trick. Or, with two 40mm. It still has a bomb bay. Or, use the A-26 for cannon + bomb bay capacity. Or, forget the big guns and press on with napalm, so any aircraft can do it.
A-38 will represent double the target size as it was for the big P-47 or P-38, and almost 3 times the target size of the P-51 - making the Flak gunners very happy.
In ww2, the engine-out situation on big 4-engined aircraft is: 'doh, lets fly another 100 miles there and there, and then RTB'. On a big 2-engined aircraft, the engine-out situation is: 'better RTB ASAP' (when low on fuel and ordnance) or 'let's find a place to land' (not long after take off). RAF found out that hard way with Saro Lerwick and Avro Manchester.
The TBU/TBY would've indeed been interesting, even though the Japanese were in reatreat by the time it was slated for service use.
Seeing how protracted the JSF program was/is, the A/FX sounds like a less risky proposal, if just because only 2 services should use it, not the 3rd too.
really needs Vulcan B3 / Skybolt and Valiant B2 for completenessThe classic answer
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