DBWI : Perpetual copyright 28th amendment never passed?

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

In 1998, Congress passed the 28th amendment, nicknamed the Sonny Bono amendment or the “Mickey Mouse” amendment, This amendment effectively made copyright perpetual, as copyrights after 1923 were to remain copyrighted forever. But what if it never got passed? How would culture be like?

OCC : Sonno Bono wanted copyright to last forever. That would require a constitutional amendment. However, after his death congress passed the “Copyright Extension Act” which made copyright last 20 more years.

 

[Dolan]

There will be no international boycott of Disney, Sony, and RIAA, which ironically led to Disney going bankrupt in 2017, Sony stopped their music aspects after massive deficit, and Pro-RIAA Musicians and Artists basically having their career practically dead.

Also India and Russia openly backing up "illegal" file sharing services, while China used them to outright ignore copyright claims.

That fucking Amendment is literally the death of American creative industry.

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

There will be no international boycott of Disney, Sony, and RIAA, which ironically led to Disney going bankrupt in 2017, Sony stopped their music aspects after massive deficit, and Pro-RIAA Musicians and Artists basically having their career practically dead.

Also India and Russia openly backing up "illegal" file sharing services, while China used them to outright ignore copyright claims.

That fucking Amendment is literally the death of American creative industry.

OCC : Whoa there! I understand there will be a backlash but Disney going bankrupt and Sony exiting the music industry? That’s literally taking it too far. OTL there were no such bankruptcies that happened to THIS extreme measure when the Copyright Extension Act ect passed. I think the MPAA and RIAA might even be planning another copyright extension right now as famous characters such as Mickey Mouse and Porky Pig as their copyright time is running out. You really think Bob Iger or his successor is REALLY gonna let one of the world’s most famous icons, and a quintessential part of American culture fall into public domain?

 

[Frank Hart]

There will be no international boycott of Disney, Sony, and RIAA, which ironically led to Disney going bankrupt in 2017, Sony stopped their music aspects after massive deficit, and Pro-RIAA Musicians and Artists basically having their career practically dead.

Also India and Russia openly backing up "illegal" file sharing services, while China used them to outright ignore copyright claims.

That fucking Amendment is literally the death of American creative industry.

OCC : Whoa there! I understand there will be a backlash but Disney going bankrupt and Sony exiting the music industry? That’s literally taking it too far. OTL there were no such bankruptcies that happened to THIS extreme measure when the Copyright Extension Act ect passed. I think the MPAA and RIAA might even be planning another copyright extension right now as famous characters such as Mickey Mouse and Porky Pig as their copyright time is running out. You really think Bob Iger or his successor is REALLY gonna let one of the world’s most famous icons, and a quintessential part of American culture fall into public domain?

Well, they couldn't have picked a worse timing for the amendment. The global economy was in poor shape in 1998, and the amendment just punched creative industry in the face.

Because of that, the United States as a whole is banned from some international creative arts events due to their perpetual copyright amendment. Sonny Bono's name is also synonymous with the Amendment, which contributed to his legacy as "the worst singer ever", and people burning his albums en masse.

Oh, and did you realize that you're not supposed to be on this site? That amendment also meant that fanfiction is not allowed in the United States as it infringes on the copyright of the original characters, and there is fanfiction here.

One more thing: What Rihanna did in 2016, by refusing to comply with the 28th Amendment, killed her music career in the United States. But it created a huge ripple in the creative industry, with more artists directly attacking the United States in their works, and creating a Anti-Perpetual Copyright Movement. Now watch out, 2020, singer Taylor Swift is running for the TN-05 seat.

 

[ASUKIRIK]

There will be no international boycott of Disney, Sony, and RIAA, which ironically led to Disney going bankrupt in 2017, Sony stopped their music aspects after massive deficit, and Pro-RIAA Musicians and Artists basically having their career practically dead.

Also India and Russia openly backing up "illegal" file sharing services, while China used them to outright ignore copyright claims.

That fucking Amendment is literally the death of American creative industry.

The Amendment itself might be actually relatively harmless if Disney, RIAA, and Microsoft does not act like bullies by suing Daycares and Community Parks for "Illegitimate use of Copyrighted Characters" as well as the 2000s rows of lawsuits against people who "illegally" downloaded or shared music over the internet, and Microsoft creating the infamous "Legit_Access" Virus who basically locking down all internet-linked computer who operate on "pirated" copy of Windows. Which unfortunately also meant many third world nation governments suddenly found themselves locked out of their own computer systems.

The ridiculous lawsuits and bullying behaviors caused massive protests across the World in 2003-2004, before every corporation and artist who backed them ending up facing not only DELIBERATE illegal copying and sharing of their intellectual properties (with Microsoft ended up literally banned on many countries as they moved to Linux), their sales also naturally plummeted to record low.

The real death kneel of the Hyper-capitalist corporations, however, was started by Swedish Court's decision to backing up, and actually, promote "The Pirate Bay" as a measure against American Capitalism, Russia hosting Napster servers, and India openly launched "Quit Microsoft" initiative, who ended up erasing Microsoft's Asian Market virtually overnight. The ensuing "Copyright Depression" crisis of 2004-2010 also destroying much of any attempt to enforce copyright laws during the internet age, and as such, Sonny-Bono Amendment was seen as 'The Second Prohibition' by their detractors.

...

Without the ill-fated Perpetual Copyright Amendment, I would bet we'll still use Windows OS on our Computer, and maybe someone could make paid download actually works...

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

The Amendment itself might be actually relatively harmless if Disney, RIAA, and Microsoft does not act like bullies by suing Daycares and Community Parks for "Illegitimate use of Copyrighted Characters" as well as the 2000s rows of lawsuits against people who "illegally" downloaded or shared music over the internet, and Microsoft creating the infamous "Legit_Access" Virus who basically locking down all internet-linked computer who operate on "pirated" copy of Windows. Which unfortunately also meant many third world nation governments suddenly found themselves locked out of their own computer systems.

The ridiculous lawsuits and bullying behaviors caused massive protests across the World in 2003-2004, before every corporation and artist who backed them ending up facing not only DELIBERATE illegal copying and sharing of their intellectual properties (with Microsoft ended up literally banned on many countries as they moved to Linux), their sales also naturally plummeted to record low.

The real death kneel of the Hyper-capitalist corporations, however, was started by Swedish Court's decision to backing up, and actually, promote "The Pirate Bay" as a measure against American Capitalism, Russia hosting Napster servers, and India openly launched "Quit Microsoft" initiative, who ended up erasing Microsoft's Asian Market virtually overnight. The ensuing "Copyright Depression" crisis of 2004-2010 also destroying much of any attempt to enforce copyright laws during the internet age, and as such, Sonny-Bono Amendment was seen as 'The Second Prohibition' by their detractors.

...

Without the ill-fated Perpetual Copyright Amendment, I would bet we'll still use Windows OS on our Computer, and maybe someone could make paid download actually works...

OCC : There were no such movements when the OTL Copyright Extension Act was passed. Sure there will be backlash but in the minds of the public, copyright is merely a fringe issue and is merely just a small issue for entertainment hobbyists. The public is not gonna care about copyright because in the minds of the public there are bigger political issues. Did mass protests storm when the copyright act in 1998 was signed? Did the politicians care when the EU’s article 13 was signed? The movie, music, and video game industry is extremely powerful and is just gonna turn a blind eye to the small amount of people complaining about it. As long as movies, TV, music, and video games still exist, they will still be in business and there’s no thought of the industry going bankrupt. As long as the public wants movies, they will still get their money, and if a big powerful industry wants something, they can and will get it. And also, American copyright laws do not affect other countries. Things that are copyrighted in the United States may be public domain in other countries and vice versa. In the United States, anyone can make a Peter Pan work as it’s public domain here but in the United Kingdom since the character is still copyrighted, ons must pay the copyright holder. Doesn’t affect the Peter Pan works in the US. Other countries have different copyright laws and the US copyright laws have no jurisdiction other there.

 

[BigBlueBox]

And also, American copyright laws do not affect other countries. Things that are copyrighted in the United States may be public domain in other countries and vice versa. In the United States, anyone can make a Peter Pan work as it’s public domain here but in the United Kingdom since the character is still copyrighted, ons must pay the copyright holder. Doesn’t affect the Peter Pan works in the US. Other countries have different copyright laws and the US copyright laws have no jurisdiction other there.

OOC:
Completely and absolutely false. If America passes perpetual copyright it will try and force the rest of the world to do the same. Any country that refuses will be denied trade deals and given the cold shoulder.

 

[Frank Hart]

If America passes perpetual copyright it will try and force the rest of the world to do the same. Any country that refuses will be denied trade deals and given the cold shoulder.

Ironically the opposite is happening right now. Because of Perpetual Copyright, America is now denied trade deals, and given a cold shoulder whenever copyrighted characters are involved. Whatever the United States say, their opinions on the creative arts are directly flushed down the toilet.

 

[Aisha Clan-Clan]

Disney wouldn't have been able to get an exemption from the 13th amendment back in 2018 and would still have to pay workers at it's theme parks.

 

[Kara0616]

Honestly I think Bill Clinton could have prevented the 28th amendment had the Monica Lewinsky scandal not lead to the "Republican Coup" that essentially forced him to resign.

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

Honestly I think Bill Clinton could have prevented the 28th amendment had the Monica Lewinsky scandal not lead to the "Republican Coup" that essentially forced him to resign.

OCC : Bill Clinton was actually for the Copyright Extension Act.

 

[Joseph890]

Rihanna Career may have been destroyed in the United States but she’s still popular in Europe and most of South America.

 

[Plateosaurus]

Canada and Mexico would not have had a fractured relationship with the US, and would not have gotten the flood of immigrants the came with wanting to flee such draconic laws. On that note, studies have shown copyright claims are more likely to be filed against people of colour and be more harsh in those specific cases.

 

[Kara0616]

OCC : Bill Clinton was actually for the Copyright Extension Act.

OCC: Ok I probably should have looked it up before I typed, thanks for correcting me.

 

[Dolan]

OCC : Bill Clinton was actually for the Copyright Extension Act.

OOC: It might be Democrat talking point to made Bill "Vindicated by History".

 

[Histor32]

Copyright should have a limit and fair use.

I can understand a remake clause or other things but I agree this is the stuff that has really been killing creativity and also lowering costs on many things.

There should be a fair balance, just not anytime soon if folks with the money have anything to say about it and as such music, movies and other sectors will continue to spew garbage and raise costs on medicines and other copyrighted items..

 

[Frank Hart]

Disney wouldn't have been able to get an exemption from the 13th amendment back in 2018 and would still have to pay workers at it's theme parks.

That exemption led to mass strikes in Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, and Shanghai, not to mention in Anaheim, Santa Ana, and Orlando. Disney is now one of the companies targeted in "Perpetual Boycott, Divest, Sanction" (PBDS, named after the tactic against Israel), despite coming close to bankruptcy in 2017.

Ironically enough, Israel showed no respect for the United States once copyright is brought up, aligning itself with its enemies on that particular matter. As of 2007, Israeli celebrities are allowed in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia provided that they show up in anti-Perpetual Copyright rallies.

 

[Dolan]

Ironically enough, Israel showed no respect for the United States once copyright is brought up, aligning itself with its enemies on that particular matter. As of 2007, Israeli celebrities are allowed in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia provided that they show up in anti-Perpetual Copyright rallies.

At least there are silver linings of such disaster, Israeli-palestine-arabs relationship has been on the warmest, most friendly and cordial since US basically plunge the World into such creative industry crisis.

Sure, there are still hotspots around the holy sites, but Palestinian Administration and Israel basically finally agreed on two state solution with Jerusalem made as independent Free City-state with ties to both. The Middle Eastern peace is one of the best thing happened in 21st century.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Consider that the major challenge and opponent to the 28th Amendment has been the biotech industry. Ever since 1999, Genentech to Monsanto Corporation have filed massive lawsuits over who owns the patents and copyright to genomes of organisms.

The reason Clinton eventually supported the passage of the 28th Amendment was the Native American leaders like Benjamin Nighthorse Campbell and Wilma Mankiller who noted that the First Nations maintained the IPO rights to many of the indigenous species of plants and animals across the Western Hemisphere. That is why groups like Idle No More, Turtle Island, and the American Indian Movement (AIM) have earned billions from the biotech revolution.

If one were to "butterfly" the development of the Amendment, consider that most Native American nations would still have to rely solely on gaming/gambling for survival.

 

[Ninja Bear]

Consider that the major challenge and opponent to the 28th Amendment has been the biotech industry. Ever since 1999, Genentech to Monsanto Corporation have filed massive lawsuits over who owns the patents and copyright to genomes of organisms.

The reason Clinton eventually supported the passage of the 28th Amendment was the Native American leaders like Benjamin Nighthorse Campbell and Wilma Mankiller who noted that the First Nations maintained the IPO rights to many of the indigenous species of plants and animals across the Western Hemisphere. That is why groups like Idle No More, Turtle Island, and the American Indian Movement (AIM) have earned billions from the biotech revolution.

If one were to "butterfly" the development of the Amendment, consider that most Native American nations would still have to rely solely on gaming/gambling for survival.

I see someone else listens to Secretary Schneier's podcast! Good stuff.

But yes, incorporating biodata as well as personal data under the "all works attributable thereto" moral-rights clause has meant that the various predatory biotech companies you see in much of the rest of the developed world essentially can't operate in the US, since they can actually be held accountable. I don't think there ever could have been anything like a Lacks lawsuit anywhere outside of the US, for example, and the non-US direct-to-consumer genetic testing companies seem to have a horrifying scandal every week, with genetic data being leaked accidentally-on-purpose to some secret police agency for warrantless investigation, or this latest news that the Wuhan Institute of Biological Products was trying to develop an ethnically-targeted bioweapon based on WeGene data. I much prefer that kind of company having to be open and transparent with its licensed data and fully accountable to the people who own it, even if the company obviously doesn't.

(Though it has to be noted, for clarity, that patents are different from copyrights and aren't actually covered by the clause. The reason that the biotech companies are hoarding all of their patents in Native American holding companies has to do with the Allergan case, which essentially said that the US Patent Office's "patent court" couldn't cancel biotech patents that were ultimately derived from illegally-obtained data for reasons of "inequitable conduct," because the tribe had sovereign immunity and the patent court didn't have jurisdiction. Not quite the Shadowrun-style extraterritoriality it's sometimes been made out to be, but a little more in that vein than what you were mentioning.)

Speaking of horrifying cyberpunk dystopias, I think the 28th amendment also helped to avoid the overcentralized "social media" companies you see in countries that up until recently haven't had strong personal data protections, with all the attendant baggage. (We all remember the scandal with RealM in South Korea last year, and the quadruple-digit body count that's probably attributable to their secret "drama-promotion" algorithms.) As was mentioned in the podcast, that's not only because citizens can demand a full accounting of all licensed data at any given time, but also because "harder" protections like modern copyright are superior to "softer" protections like trade secrets. You really can't effectively regulate a data services corporation if it won't tell anyone what it's doing, and nobody can actually make sure their data's not being misused if they don't know what's happening to it and when. If the whole interlocking internet infrastructure is holed through with trade secrets, nobody's going to have any privacy or security -- meaning that strong copyright protections are an essential part of breaking up the data services guild system, just as patents were essential to breaking up the manufacturing guild system way back when.