Bearing in mind US - and UK for that matter - in treated with Sodium Flouride, a suppressant used by the SS in the concentration camps, he could well have a point.
Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
Whelp, hope you all enjoyed that last mission to the United States, because from here on in there because now basically exists a state of war.
Foreign military action, even if the details are restricted to only the intelligence community, has just been carried out on American soil. There is no way the US can not retaliate, as regardless of what the FBI did, by taking Asia back in the way they did, the situation has been escalated.
Of course the CIA is going to be looking at Germany as the prime suspect as opposed to Russia, and I wouldn't be shocked if the CIA's mission in Germany became one solely dedicated to driving a wedge between the public and the Order (to start with). Wouldn't even need spies to do it, just back channel funds to sources critical of the Order or start digging through their trash to find things that would make good gossip items.
Nancy is good, and that's why I think the Order would survive, but as a much changed beast.
Foreign military action, even if the details are restricted to only the intelligence community, has just been carried out on American soil. There is no way the US can not retaliate, as regardless of what the FBI did, by taking Asia back in the way they did, the situation has been escalated.
Of course the CIA is going to be looking at Germany as the prime suspect as opposed to Russia, and I wouldn't be shocked if the CIA's mission in Germany became one solely dedicated to driving a wedge between the public and the Order (to start with). Wouldn't even need spies to do it, just back channel funds to sources critical of the Order or start digging through their trash to find things that would make good gossip items.
Nancy is good, and that's why I think the Order would survive, but as a much changed beast.
If the CIA (and the US in general) should focus on the Order then they are really too stupid to live. The order might be somewhat public but they are basically nothing more than an unofficial intelligence agency working for the Empress and thus the Emperor. They are the go-to gals if you need some information or a secret courier. Any resources spent on the Order besides the usual observation duties are resources not spent watching the BND (you know, the real, state funded secret service, the one with massive resources at their disposal) and other German (military) intelligence and secret agencies. A focus on the order would be the best thing to ever happen to the German intelligence community. And the US can cry all they want about a state of war (which they won't, since the president doesn't seem to be a moron) nobody would take that whining (and it's only whining, nothing more) seriously. And how do they want to retaliate? Start a war? What is possibly doing and what is sensible anyway is to step up their counterintelligence work and cleans up it's agencies.
Once again people are calling "war" way to early. In OTL the US and the Soviet Union shot down spy planes, passenger airlines, kidnapped people and spied like there is no tomorrow and nobody once talked seriously about war. It's not worth it, especially if nobody is publicly loosing face.
But generally speaking, the biggest problem the US has ITTL that it has no clue how to play Great Power politics. And this is understandable since the US hasn't be involved in a real war since the end of WW1, there is no red scare and I highly doubt that the US public cares much about international politics. Unless someone starts bombing Pearl Harbor (literally or figuratively) the US will spend about as much resources on foreign affairs (including CIA & Co) as it must but not one bit more. And considering this from an ITTL US perspective this is completely reasonable. Nobody can seriously threaten the US militarily (well, nuking and gasing is always possible but I expect the US to field a credible nuclear deterrent within another decade ITTL and then that's that), there is no "war of systems" like OTL's communism vs. capitalism and none of the other powers is looking for a war right now.
You mean you have a ex President saying this person was actually a go between the Kaiser and the president and was not a spy at all, so rogue elements in the FBI decide to put her in a state mental hospital under an assumed name, and perform medical procedures that are not even in that field considered acceptable treatment, would not be considered an offensive act against Germany? There were so many US laws broken before anything happened on the Russian end, that you could have charges brought that would be considered as trying to foment war between the powers.
The CIA is going to be using its time to try and distance themselves between everything done by the FBI, they do not want to end up being treated in the same manner.
THis is not some kind of movie, we so good we screw up and still make us look good type. The US intelligence services have been so horrible up to now, that it would not surprise me that someone in Germany picks an agent up off of the street, takes them to the Embassy and drops them off with a note for the ambassador telling them to be more careful next time.
Oh yeah, because intelligence agencies definitely don't spend money and effort in discrediting social groups. Or propping up those that oppose those social groups.
And of course that would take all of their efforts meaning they couldn't possibly do anything else.
I mean no offense to PM, but if you want me to believe there isn't a single person in the CIA who couldn't run such an operation competently, then frankly the US should be falling apart any minute now.
I'm not talking "send in the tanks" war, I'm talking a cloak and dagger sort of war. A war that isn't hot, a Cold war if you will.
Firstly, there would have still been a Red Scare, that pre-dated the 1950's. In fact there was ITTL a "German Scare" a few years back in story.
And there is a War of Systems going on, it's not Capitalism v Communism. It's American Exceptionalism v Europeanism, and while the Americans have been getting their asses kicked up around their ears for a couple of decades now, that doesn't mean they aren't willing to fight, especially as the new president has stated, if I may paraphrase, that he is sick of being on the losing side. It's stupid and dumb, and in an ideal and smart world, both sides would be co-operating as opposed to barring their teeth at each other over an international dick waving contest.
Best way to think of it, this is the old "Kaiser Wilhelm II's naval buildup" scenario, just with America playing the Germans and the Germans playing the British.
I agree, but I also stand by that what has happened has the potential to escalate things even worse. This is the United States we are talking about for the love of god. An American citizen (or citizens) have been severely injured on American soil by agents of a foreign power unknown. This may not be Pearl Harbor or 9/11, but it is still a straight up attack against the United States on US soil, basically a blow directly at American Exceptionalism, and one that should have much wider reaching consequences than "oh well, our bad in the first place".
And how exactly is that supposed to work? Short of ever CIA field agent dropping a muffin basket off with a "sorry our fellow government agents are fucking idiots" card attached? An American is an American, distinction of agency is not going to matter.
I'm not saying the US is the good guy, they are not, they are 100% in the wrong. What I am saying is though that outside Asia herself here, no-one is in the right. Gia and by extension Kat have, yet again, rushed off and put international politics at a dangerous place by acting rashly. Kira abandoned a loyal asset instead of doing the bare minimum to rescue it that could have been achieved by maybe just losing a little bit of face. Aleshire might have done the morally right thing in leaking the news to the Germans, but he is still a foreign spy acting against his own country.
And yes, US intelligence has bee horrible up till now, in such a way as to make it obvious that the Idiot Ball isn't simply in their hands, but fused to their very essence. I'm not expecting them to suddenly become capable and smart and the ultimate mary sue agency, hell I'm expecting them to try shit in retaliation and get their asses kicked so hard that the US as a whole might finally become something vaguely approaching an international rival to Germany as opposed to the current situation where the US is little more than a minor annoyance.
Paging Ilse von Mischner; Ilse von Mischner, please pick up any white paging telephone.
Actually, there is: Tetraethyl Lead AFAIK before it was banned in auto fuel the entire planet was contaminated with it.
Paging Ilse von Mischner; Ilse von Mischner, please pick up any white paging telephone.
Actually, there is: Tetraethyl Lead AFAIK before it was banned in auto fuel the entire planet was contaminated with it.
Thomas Midgley Jr strikes again.
Seriously, the one man who probably did more damage to humanity than all the rest combined.
Great work, dumbasses.
Hahahaha! Schultz is gonna love this.
Looks like that's an urban myth: https://www.politifact.com/florida/...ruth-about-fluoride-doesnt-include-nazi-myth/
Oh, I can see how the Germans and Russians could create a scenario in how they got Asia back:
A not further named humanitarian group has raided the "Clinic" and liberated the poor woman, including the paperwork on what has / was to be done to her. But that was only luck for her, as the real target were the "medical" staff.
And as the good humanitarians that the group were, they rescued her and for a little funding gave her back to Germany.
Cue some real groups popping up and proclaiming that it was them. And Germany showing that they realy, truly, cross my heart paid several tens/hundreds of thousands of Marks to get the her back.
A not further named humanitarian group has raided the "Clinic" and liberated the poor woman, including the paperwork on what has / was to be done to her. But that was only luck for her, as the real target were the "medical" staff.
And as the good humanitarians that the group were, they rescued her and for a little funding gave her back to Germany.
Cue some real groups popping up and proclaiming that it was them. And Germany showing that they realy, truly, cross my heart paid several tens/hundreds of thousands of Marks to get the her back.
In the movie about this incident, "Great shot kid! That was one in a million!"
The problem that the United States has is not with the leadership at the top, it is with the underlings.
There was this time in Australia in 1940 where two ONI agents tried to kidnap a young German teenaged girl at a fancy ball, another time the personal bodyguard to the Kaiser who was meeting with the President of the United States was forced to divest herself of the weapons she had on her person.
Now this, the Field Agents should have listened to the professional in the room but they acted on their own and things got out of control.The
What President Harriman should do is find something that the Germans want that the Americans have like, I don't know maybe American Samoa?
Have a plebiscite on whether the Samoan islands are be reunited and become independent.
Another thing is to get in the Space program by announcing that the goal for the American Space Program is to build an Earth Orbital Laboratory for "Scientists in Space" with the United States footing the vast majority of budget for it and make it open to other nations to participate.
There was this time in Australia in 1940 where two ONI agents tried to kidnap a young German teenaged girl at a fancy ball, another time the personal bodyguard to the Kaiser who was meeting with the President of the United States was forced to divest herself of the weapons she had on her person.
Now this, the Field Agents should have listened to the professional in the room but they acted on their own and things got out of control.The
What President Harriman should do is find something that the Germans want that the Americans have like, I don't know maybe American Samoa?
Have a plebiscite on whether the Samoan islands are be reunited and become independent.
Another thing is to get in the Space program by announcing that the goal for the American Space Program is to build an Earth Orbital Laboratory for "Scientists in Space" with the United States footing the vast majority of budget for it and make it open to other nations to participate.
This is still one of the timelines I look for when I open the site The mess in the asylum may reveal to the world all that is done there.
The USA can complain loudly about the kidnapping and attempted murder of the sanitarium staff, who were simply doing their jobs, horrible as they were.
I can see this as getting VERY interesting/messy very fast.
Mailing a scare cat to someone in power can be done by anyone, not just someone connected with Kat...
The mess in the asylum may reveal to the world all that is done there.The USA can complain loudly about the kidnapping and attempted murder of the sanitarium staff, who were simply doing their jobs, horrible as they were.
I can see this as getting VERY interesting/messy very fast.
Mailing a scare cat to someone in power can be done by anyone, not just someone connected with Kat...
Harriman will be pretty much forced to enact the BIGGEST purge of multiple elements in the CIA and FBI in a long time.
Any complain about the death/dissapearing of the Asylum people will be shut down, as the newspapers are revealing an history worthy of an horror movie about the US Psychiatric/Psychological Care System. That an FBI Office KNEW about what was done there, and USED deliberately as a form of ILLEGAL Torture......the whole FBI Boston, except the greener rookies its going to be fired, if not outright confront prison sentences.....
Furthermore, sooner or later Kat will learn WHO did the Retrieval Op...and she's going to outright read the riot act to the Empress for once.
The main issue with Kira forbidding a retrieval Op, was that unknowingly Kira BROKE the biggest rule of the Intelligence Community's trust. You DO NOT leave your people behind. After learning WHAT was done to Asia, would Kat or her students OBEY ANY of her orders after this?
Not only that, but GIANNA pretty much switched loyalties to Russia, because Gregory had the balls to do what was needed to gain her loyalty when the chance was at hand. Moreover, Asia its unlikely to return to Germany, becoming firmly attached to Gia for good as her Aide/Assassin/Shadow....because for her first love to SACRIFICE her Freedom for her......that makes relationships unbreakable......
Short to say Katherine lost TWO of her Family in this, and she won't be capable of see Kira and NOT feel rage in a long time after this. If she for some reason does not leave the 1st Foot....she's going to switch to full cold and formal behaviour with the Empress...only being Kat with the Kids.........
Any complain about the death/dissapearing of the Asylum people will be shut down, as the newspapers are revealing an history worthy of an horror movie about the US Psychiatric/Psychological Care System. That an FBI Office KNEW about what was done there, and USED deliberately as a form of ILLEGAL Torture......the whole FBI Boston, except the greener rookies its going to be fired, if not outright confront prison sentences.....
Furthermore, sooner or later Kat will learn WHO did the Retrieval Op...and she's going to outright read the riot act to the Empress for once.
The main issue with Kira forbidding a retrieval Op, was that unknowingly Kira BROKE the biggest rule of the Intelligence Community's trust. You DO NOT leave your people behind. After learning WHAT was done to Asia, would Kat or her students OBEY ANY of her orders after this?
Not only that, but GIANNA pretty much switched loyalties to Russia, because Gregory had the balls to do what was needed to gain her loyalty when the chance was at hand. Moreover, Asia its unlikely to return to Germany, becoming firmly attached to Gia for good as her Aide/Assassin/Shadow....because for her first love to SACRIFICE her Freedom for her......that makes relationships unbreakable......
Short to say Katherine lost TWO of her Family in this, and she won't be capable of see Kira and NOT feel rage in a long time after this. If she for some reason does not leave the 1st Foot....she's going to switch to full cold and formal behaviour with the Empress...only being Kat with the Kids.........
I can see film canisters being anonymously dropped off at theatres, TV stations and internatinal newspapers.
The film starts with full-color scene of a young woman saying goodbye to a couple amid hugs and kisses, "I was sent on an errand and have been playing hookey afterward but now I have to get home."
The rest of the film is in film noir style with subdued color and black-and-white bits showing the woman being denied boarding an an airliner, detention, interrogation, and the events leading up to her planned lobotomy.
With the woman on the operating table undergoing electroschock a doctor and nurse explain what's going on and what's in store once the specialist arrives.
The specialist arrives closely followed by a bunch of soldiers in unmarked sloppy gray uniforms. The specalist starts a sales pitch for the procedure and one of the soldiers shoots him.
The soldiers gather up the woman, the doctor, and the nurse and disappear off into the distance.
The final scene is in full color of the woman crying on the shoulder of an older one, 'I didn't know if they were were going to kill me or burn out my brain. I was so afraid."
The dialogue is in English with subtitles in German, Russian and Polish.
Another option: Pick up a CIA agent. Take him to a castle that's still owned by the German government. Treat him with courtesey, including a polite "Historical tour" of the castle he's taken to, including the dungeon and its special equipment, before sending him home.
Either leave the equipment as is, or make sure it's shiny and well polished. For added horror, even put a dummy in the historical exhibit.
Either leave the equipment as is, or make sure it's shiny and well polished. For added horror, even put a dummy in the historical exhibit.
Too tame. After what the Americans did, they crossed several unwritten rules of the Intelligency Community. Even the RUSSIANS were sickened when they exfiltrated Asia, and that tells you LEAGUES of that there are certain things just NOT done.
Torture may be tolerated as part of an Interrogation, but POINTLESS Torture AND MUTILATION? And in young female , JUST for payback?
That's kind of stuff that the BND WILL BE FORCED to send a message.
Tell me.....HOW would sound to make vanish multiple US "spies" In Europe......then they wake up inside the historical prison of undesirables, namely Dachau castle.
The SAME cells without light that individuals like Savaugeot and others enjoyed, but with the addition of LOUD American Music at random time periods, making them lose the notion of day and night.
Then being taken from there, by specific corridors to never give a hint of where they are, then being tied to a chair with a light over, and being questioned with screaming and slaps by an individual with flawless accent-less English for several hours, then being sent back to the cells.
Rinse and repeat. ONE WHOLE MONTH. By the end of the month you would have a whole LOT of mentally broken Americans......then they wake up in an hotel room somewhere in Europe, bathed, cleaned, if thinner, and with a simple written message in their beds.
"If something like what happened with Miss L happens AGAIN, THIS will be the standard treatment of American Agents , but they WON'T appear again."
The worse would be that in this case, the OTHER European Intelligence organizations WILL aid in this, because its long time in their eyes to send a reality check of the Intelligence Rules to the Americans after countless screw ups in the last decades....