Sports What Ifs.

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Not familiar with NHL history myself, but obviously the other league doesn't exist so there was some kind of merger. Was it an equitable merger like the AFL and NFL in our timeline? Or was it more like the AFC being brought into the NFL with two teams only? And, in this scenario where the WHA has a TV contract, would it become more like baseball where the League's are equal and there is one Stanley Cup at the end between the two leagues?

Now for a small scenario.

There has often been talk about the NFL moving to Europe with a team, all of it pretty facetious but there has been one game each year in London and NFL Europe was around even back in the 1980s.

Could the NHL have ever done anything with say one of the Nordic countries getting a team?

It probably wouldn't happen, but just like the NFL with the London Games, it seems like it could be done and would probably be more popular because hockey is at least a popular sport in Europe among more than just a few fans.

Of course, the NHL gets a number of European players anyway so it probably isn't as necessary to have the Oslo Vikings as a team or even to have a yearly game in Copenhagen or someplace but what would have to happen for the NHL to be branching out into Europe the way the NFL has?

 

[Nivek]

Pittsburgh would be the sports mecca of the country.

Thanks you make the yinzers worse, urinatingtree might not endure it

Hey try improve Steelers, would be posdposs Pittsburgh won it all the same year? That would be insane

 

[AltSptHst]

If it was 1966, the franchise Pittsburgh didn't get was The Bulls.

Yeah. Think about that.

I know that there's lots of butterflies off such a POD, but, just for a moment, consider a Pittsburgh in the late 80's, early 90's, where the Pengos are still the Pengos...and Pittsburgh has OTL's Bulls.

Jordan and Pippin, AND Lemieux and Jagr, in the same city.

If Pittsburgh got both NHL and NBA teams at that time, I'm not sure that both of them would stay that long. Or, if they did, the Pirates may have been the ones that had to leave. I'm not sure if Pittsburgh can take more than three teams.

 

[FickleCrossroad]

If Pittsburgh got both NHL and NBA teams at that time, I'm not sure that both of them would stay that long. Or, if they did, the Pirates may have been the ones that had to leave. I'm not sure if Pittsburgh can take more than three teams.

Butterfly the post-steel exodus and sure. Or shorten the NBA and NHL seasons. Yeah, it is a marginal four-sport town, maybe it could handle MLS, but not NBA & NHL.

 

[Sigma7]

Not familiar with NHL history myself, but obviously the other league doesn't exist so there was some kind of merger. Was it an equitable merger like the AFL and NFL in our timeline? Or was it more like the AFC being brought into the NFL with two teams only? And, in this scenario where the WHA has a TV contract, would it become more like baseball where the League's are equal and there is one Stanley Cup at the end between the two leagues?

There was...an 'expansion': Basically, the NHL brought in the four most viable WHA franchises, gutted them, treated them like dogs---, tried to bury them...and the Oilers still won five Cups in their first eleven seasons in the NHL. Of course, the other three teams that came in with them (Whalers, Nordiques and original Jets) are now The Avalanche, Coyotes, and The NASCAR Country Nobody Cares. (Yeah, great hockey market they got down there in Raleigh; they win The Cup and their attendance jumped from 25th in the league to 15th...then dropped back to the bottom ten/bottom five after one season. Had they won a Cup in Hartford, Ron Francis would have been elected governor. Without even running.)

Now for a small scenario.

There has often been talk about the NFL moving to Europe with a team, all of it pretty facetious but there has been one game each year in London and NFL Europe was around even back in the 1980s.

Could the NHL have ever done anything with say one of the Nordic countries getting a team?

The NFL could do it, because the league makes more money than The EU, and their regular season is only sixteen games, so travel costs, while considerable, wouldn't be anything the NFL couldn't handle, especially if the European team had a strong fanbase to support it.

The NHL's regular season is eighty two games, then there's the thousand rounds of playoffs, so, no matter what the draw in a European market, the franchise would have to be subsidized by the rest of the league, and it wouldn't be worth it.

However...

Of course, the NHL gets a number of European players anyway so it probably isn't as necessary to have the Oslo Vikings as a team or even to have a yearly game in Copenhagen or someplace but what would have to happen for the NHL to be branching out into Europe the way the NFL has?

Here's something that I think the NHL and Europe should be looking into: A Euro League; a European based sister league, playing NHL rules hockey, with a season, and playoffs, concurrent to the NHL season, with their league playoff champion playing the NHL playoff champion for The Cup.

Of course, the NHL is a league that still believes that, one day, markets like Phoenix, AZ, Raleigh, NC, and Miami-Dade FLA, will TOTALLY embrace hockey! (Not. Gonna. Happen.)

So, while it would make A LOT of sense to put together a Euro League, with teams in Germany, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Scandinavia, Finland, and the Baltic states, they won't do it.

After Seattle gets a team, I believe that Houston has just as good a shot at the next expansion franchise as Quebec.

That is how stupid the NHL really is.

Thanks you make the yinzers worse, urinatingtree might not endure it

Hey try improve Steelers, would be posdposs Pittsburgh won it all the same year? That would be insane

It'd make things interesting, that's for sure.

If Pittsburgh got both NHL and NBA teams at that time, I'm not sure that both of them would stay that long. Or, if they did, the Pirates may have been the ones that had to leave. I'm not sure if Pittsburgh can take more than three teams.

Butterfly the post-steel exodus and sure. Or shorten the NBA and NHL seasons. Yeah, it is a marginal four-sport town, maybe it could handle MLS, but not NBA & NHL.

I always thought that Pittsburgh, with strong teams, would be a natural draw for the entire western half of the state, or does western PA just not have the population to support Pittsburgh the way the eastern half can support Philly?

 

[FickleCrossroad]

I always thought that Pittsburgh, with strong teams, would be a natural draw for the entire western half of the state, or does western PA just not have the population to support Pittsburgh the way the eastern half can support Philly?

In winter, I'm not sure. Driving in that part of the state in winter is more frustrating than in the East, and has a lower population density, coupled with worse mass transit. MLS seems like a better call.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

There was...an 'expansion': Basically, the NHL brought in the four most viable WHA franchises, gutted them, treated them like dogs---, tried to bury them...and the Oilers still won five Cups in their first eleven seasons in the NHL. Of course, the other three teams that came in with them (Whalers, Nordiques and original Jets) are now The Avalanche, Coyotes, and The NASCAR Country Nobody Cares. (Yeah, great hockey market they got down there in Raleigh; they win The Cup and their attendance jumped from 25th in the league to 15th...then dropped back to the bottom ten/bottom five after one season. Had they won a Cup in Hartford, Ron Francis would have been elected governor. Without even running.)

I must first state the following before the crux of my comment: Fuck the Avalanche. Seriously, fuck those guys.

And blame Peter Karmanos, aka the dumbfuck who moved the Whalers to Raleigh when he had Columbus as another possibility. Columbus isn’t exactly the land of milk and honey as far as hockey goes, but it’s a far cry better than fucking Raleigh. And with the success the team had in the early 2000s, Columbus would have embraced the Whalers. I mean, OTL the Hurricanes played for the Cup in 2002 - against the Red Wings. Imagine Columbus fans gettin to face the Team Up North for the Stanley Cup. I mean, they would have been turned into roadkill because the Red Wings were that fucking good in 2002, but attendance would have been a hell of a lot better than 15th. I mean shit, Vegas reached 15th in attendance and their arena is cramped with four short dudes and a Dachshund from what I hear. And then in ‘06 when the Hurricanes went all the way? Columbus would be demanding that Detroit give up the name Hockeytown after that. Raleigh? Stopped giving a hot shit two weeks later. Peter Karmanos, you are dumber than whale shit.

 

[AltSptHst]

There was...an 'expansion': Basically, the NHL brought in the four most viable WHA franchises, gutted them, treated them like dogs---, tried to bury them...and the Oilers still won five Cups in their first eleven seasons in the NHL. Of course, the other three teams that came in with them (Whalers, Nordiques and original Jets) are now The Avalanche, Coyotes, and The NASCAR Country Nobody Cares. (Yeah, great hockey market they got down there in Raleigh; they win The Cup and their attendance jumped from 25th in the league to 15th...then dropped back to the bottom ten/bottom five after one season. Had they won a Cup in Hartford, Ron Francis would have been elected governor. Without even running.)

Yeah, Sigma, that's another example of what a joke the NHL is. They put a team in Phoenix, Anaheim, and Miami, and they let an A-hole by the name of Dollar Bill Wirtz keep the NHL out of hockey-mad Wisconsin.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

Yeah, Sigma, that's another example of what a joke the NHL is. They put a team in Phoenix, Anaheim, and Miami, and they let an A-hole by the name of Dollar Bill Wirtz keep the NHL out of hockey-mad Wisconsin.

Not to mention a dipshit commissioner who let Cheap Wirtz get away with it. Had the original Jets been able to hightail it to Milwaukee instead of fucking Phoenix, they would undoubtedly be in better shape.

I wonder if Rocky would be amenable to a team in Milwaukee.

 

[AltSptHst]

Not to mention a dipshit commissioner who let Cheap Wirtz get away with it. Had the original Jets been able to hightail it to Milwaukee instead of fucking Phoenix, they would undoubtedly be in better shape.

I wonder if Rocky would be amenable to a team in Milwaukee.

I don't know, but I just realized something the other day: Milwaukee didn't even have a WHA team in the 70's (heck, San Diego and Phoenix even had one). I wonder if cheapskate's reach was that big. If so, that's ashame.

 

[Spens1]

WI: The Detroit Pistons win the 2003 NBA draft lottery

2003 NBA Draft

1. Lebron James - Detroit Pistons
2. Carmelo Anthony - Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Chris Bosh - Denver Nuggets
4. Dwayne Wade - Toronto Raptors
5. Darko Milicic - Los Angeles Clippers
6. Kirk Hinrich - Chicago Bulls
7. Chris Kaman - Milwaukee Bucks
8. TJ Ford - New York Knicks

My thoughts are Detroit become a dynasty, with Lebron being mentored by that core. Unfortuantly for Tayshaun Prince he may go by the wayside I suspect. Milicic though may actually develop nicely and have a long, lengthy career as an NBA centre.

 

[AltSptHst]

WI: The Detroit Pistons win the 2003 NBA draft lottery

2003 NBA Draft

1. Lebron James - Detroit Pistons
2. Carmelo Anthony - Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Chris Bosh - Denver Nuggets
4. Dwayne Wade - Toronto Raptors
5. Darko Milicic - Los Angeles Clippers
6. Kirk Hinrich - Chicago Bulls
7. Chris Kaman - Milwaukee Bucks
8. TJ Ford - New York Knicks

My thoughts are Detroit become a dynasty, with Lebron being mentored by that core. Unfortuantly for Tayshaun Prince he may go by the wayside I suspect. Milicic though may actually develop nicely and have a long, lengthy career as an NBA centre.

If the Pistons would have won the lottery, that pick would have went to the Grizzlies (Detroit traded Otis Thorpe to Vancouver in 1997 for a conditional first round pick [the pick had to be from #2-18] between 1998 and 2003).

 

[Spens1]

If the Pistons would have won the lottery, that pick would have went to the Grizzlies (Detroit traded Otis Thorpe to Vancouver in 1997 for a conditional first round pick [the pick had to be from #2-18] between 1998 and 2003).

And these idiots agreed to it. Well then WI they did the trade and didn't put in a stupid condition like that.

 

[Nivek]

If the Pistons would have won the lottery, that pick would have went to the Grizzlies

Might lebron saved the Grizzlies in vancouver them?

 

[Don Corleone]

Might lebron saved the Grizzlies in vancouver them?

Grizzlies were already in Memphis when Lebron was drafted.

 

[Nivek]

Grizzlies were already in Memphis when Lebron was drafted.

Ah too late but would help them, that would be something

 

[Spens1]

Lebron + Gasol would be a hell of a duo it must be said.

 

[Spens1]

WI: No real rise of AFL, Football rises in its place

Pretty much, for reasons, football rises instead of football in Australia and Victoria instead of AFL. The AFL remains kind of like a regional sport or national but not huge (maybe the A-League level of today). (If only I knew had to/had the time to do a wikibox series for this).

Football Today:

Football in the country has risen to be one of the top leagues in the world, with an average attendance of 34,000 in the AFL, with it being one of the main competitions in the world. Melbourne too is up there with Sao Paolo, London, Buenos Aires, Madrid or Milan as major football capitals, with most of the largest clubs in the country (and some of the largest in the world) calling the city of Melbourne home. There are other major clubs as well however, with clubs such as West Coast F.C. (more coloquilly known as the West Coast Eagles), Adelaide F.C. (known Coloquially as the Adelaide Crows), Sydney F.C. (aka the Sydney Swans) or Brisbane F.C. (aka the Brisbane Lions). Their is a number of divisions below the AFL, with the bottom team being relegated and the 2nd bottom entering a 2 leg promotion playoff.

The Melbourne Football Ground (MFG) is one of the holy grails of world football, on par perhaps with the San Siro, Maracana or Wembley Stadium, the ground plays host to FFA Cup semi finals and finals, League Cup finals as well as being the main home ground to the powerhouse Australia.

Australian Football League (Football/Soccer Division 1):

1. Adelaide F.C. (Crows) - Football Park (67,000)
2. Brisbane F.C. (Lions) - The Gabba (Wollongabba Football Stadium) (40,000)
3. Carlton F.C. (Blues) - Princes Park (62,000)
4. Collingwood F.C. (Magpies) - Victoria Park (48,000)
5. Essendon F.C. (Bombers) - Windy Hill (44,000)
6. Fremantle F.C. (Dockers) - Fremantle Oval (38,000)
7. Geelong F.C. (Cats) - Kardinia Park (50,000)
8. Gold Coast F.C. (Suns) - Carrara Stadium (25,000)
9. Western Sydney F.C. (Giants) - Paramatta Stadium (40,000)
10. Hawthorn F.C. (Hawks) - Waverley Park (93,000)
11. Melbourne F.C. (Demons) - AAMI Park (50,000)
12. North Melbourne F.C. (Kangaroos) - Arden Street (35,000)
13. Port Adelaide F.C. (Power) - Adelaide Oval (53,000)
14. Richmond F.C. (Tigers) - Punt Road (76,000)
15. St Kilda F.C. (Saints) - Junction Oval (47,000)
16. Sydney F.C. (Swans) - Sydney Football Stadium (45,000)
17. West Coast F.C. (Eagles) - Perth Stadium (60,000)
18. Footscray F.C. (Bulldogs) - Whitten Oval (42,000)

Australian Football Championship (Football/Soccer Division 2):

1. Brisbane Bears F.C. - Ballymore Stadium (25,000)
2. Fitzroy F.C (Gorillas) - Brunswick Street (34,000)
3. Darwin F.C. (Buffaloes) - Marrara Stadium (32,000)
4. Alice Springs F.C. (Thunder) - Traeger Park (14,000)
5. Canberra F.C. (Cobras) - Bruce Stadium (25,000)
6. Cairns F.C. (Cutters) - Carzaly Park (13,500)
7. Sandringham F.C. (Zebras) - Trevor Barker Oval (18,000)
8. Port Melbourne F.C. (Borough) - North Port Oval (32,000)
9. Springvale F.C. (Scorpions) - Springvale Reserve (15,000)
10. Werribee F.C. (Bees) - Chirnside Park (20,000)
11. Frankston F.C. (Dolphins) - Frankston Park (18,000)
12. Ballarat F.C. (Imps) - Eureka Stadium (11,000)
13. Hobart F.C. (Devils) - Bellerive Oval (25,000)
14. Launceston F.C. (Panthers) - York Park (21,000)
15. Devenport F.C. (Cougars) - Devenport Oval (14,000)
16. Dandenong F.C. (Dandies) - Shepley Oval (15,000)
17. Sunshine Coast F.C. (Sharks) - Sunshine Coast Stadium (12,000)
18. Townsville F.C. (Locomotives) - Willows Sports Complex (30,000)

Australian Regional League (Football/Soccer Division 3):

 

[Unknown]

WI the Steelers trade Terry Hanratty to the New York Giants in the 1975 for their first-round pick...which turns out to be Randy White?

Randy White with Jack Lambert and Mean Joe Greene...that'd be a killer defense (not that the Steelers didn't have a good defense already)...

 

[HawkAussie]

@Spens1 So what happened in Cricket in this timeline as you have taken away the Melbourne Cricket Ground and the Sydney Cricket Ground from the grounds here.