Sports What Ifs.

[DTF955Baseballfan]

How surefire a #1 pick was Griffey, Jr.?

If the White Sox lose a few more games in 1986, and the mariners sneak ahead of them and get the #3 pick, do the White Sox still take McDowell? they seem to have wanted someone who could come start right away as a pitcher, but would they pass up the Kid?

Woudl Griffey then go #2? Pittsburgh took an outfielder who didn't pan out, but with Griffey available, surely they take him.

Does Seattle move in 1991 or 1992 instead of beng sold to Japanese ivnestors?

 

[Nivek]

If the White Sox lose a few more games in 1986, and the mariners sneak ahead of them and get the #3 pick, do the White Sox still take McDowell? they seem to have wanted someone who could come start right away as a pitcher, but would they pass up the Kid?

Woudl Griffey then go #2? Pittsburgh took an outfielder who didn't pan out, but with Griffey available, surely they take him.

Does Seattle move in 1991 or 1992 instead of beng sold to Japanese ivnestors?

Nintendo wanted to save the team regardless of a star player, so Mariners would still being on, Mariners always give money to nintendo so not reason to go away.....

 

[AltSptHst]

Ben Wilson

In November 1984, Ben Wilson, the best HS player in the nation, was shot and killed:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1380581-8-things-to-know-before-you-watch-espns-documentary-benji

One of the schools that he was considering was nearby DePaul, a team that had a history of choking in the tourney in the early-80's. After their 1992 NCAA appearance, they fell off the map for the most part.

If Wilson goes there, and leads them to a National Title (or even a Final Four. It was possible. They made the Sweet 16 in 86 and 87), does DePaul nosedive into irrelevance (they have only made the NCAA's twice since 1992)?

 

[Sigma7]

In November 1984, Ben Wilson, the best HS player in the nation, was shot and killed:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1380581-8-things-to-know-before-you-watch-espns-documentary-benji

One of the schools that he was considering was nearby DePaul, a team that had a history of choking in the tourney in the early-80's. After their 1992 NCAA appearance, they fell off the map for the most part.

If Wilson goes there, and leads them to a National Title (or even a Final Four. It was possible. They made the Sweet 16 in 86 and 87), does DePaul nosedive into irrelevance (they have only made the NCAA's twice since 1992)?

I don't know if one potential mega-star player can change the fortunes of a given college program, but the more intriguing question is how Wilson would have done in the NBA.

If he left whatever school he ultimately picked, with such a skill set and a fine polish on his game that was ready for prime time, in '87, would the Spurs have still taken The Admiral with the #1 pick?

A guy who projects as 'The Next Magic'...how do you pass on a guy like that if you've got the #1?

Had he lived and developed as the people around him thought he would have, maybe the Spurs take him at #1 in '87...which would leave The Admiral at #2 for Phoenix to gobble up.

Where SA goes from there depends on their ability to find another rock solid center and build around Wilson.

Phoenix gets a future HOF center to build around at #2...and the idea of The Admiral, Thunder Dan, Sir Charles, Ice and K.J. facing The Bulls in the Finals in '93 sounds mighty tasty!

 

[AltSptHst]

How ya doin, Sigma? Who do ya got for tomorrow's SB?

I can't believe that Terrell Davis didn't get in the HOF again. The voters are biased against the Broncos, but a below average coach and a choke artist (Tony Dungy and Marvin Harrison) get in. I think that the players better wake up and realize that the HOF is a sham.

Oh, well. On to your comment.

I don't know if one potential mega-star player can change the fortunes of a given college program

Since Wilson went to Simeon (a Chicago high school), I wonder if it would have inspired other Chicago stars to gravitate to DePaul.

Also, Wilson wasn't the only Chicago HS star that DePaul missed out on in the 80's and 90's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Fields

If they had both of these guys, and had NCAA Tourney success, that program may have been totally different today.

If he left whatever school he ultimately picked, with such a skill set and a fine polish on his game that was ready for prime time, in '87, would the Spurs have still taken The Admiral with the #1 pick?

A guy who projects as 'The Next Magic'...how do you pass on a guy like that if you've got the #1?

It's hard to say when he would have come out. Personally, I don't think he comes out until 1988 (because people usually stayed at least three years back then), at least.

If he comes out that year, I see the Clippers still taking Manning, and the Pacers have the #2 pick. In OTL, they took Rik Smits, but I don't see them passing on Wilson and pairing him with Reggie Miller and Chuck Person.

Here's a wild one: What if Wilson doesn't come out until 1989, and the Spurs (who picked 3rd in OTL) won the lottery for the second time in three years?

They could have paired Robinson with Wilson. That team may have made the 1990 Finals against Detroit (they came close to beating Portland that year in the second round), and went on to even greater success in the 90's (maybe Pop and Duncan aren't there today as a result).

Phoenix gets a future HOF center to build around at #2...and the idea of The Admiral, Thunder Dan, Sir Charles, Ice and K.J. facing The Bulls in the Finals in '93 sounds mighty tasty!

I think that SA still takes Robinson (because back then, the perception was that you needed a good big man to win it all), but if Phoenix gets him, we may be looking at the team of the 90's if they still somehow get Barkley five years later.

 

[Sigma7]

How ya doin, Sigma? Who do ya got for tomorrow's SB?

I can't believe that Terrell Davis didn't get in the HOF again. The voters are biased against the Broncos, but a below average coach and a choke artist (Tony Dungy and Marvin Harrison) get in. I think that the players better wake up and realize that the HOF is a sham.

Not too bad, and I've got The Broncs tomorrow for the following reasons:

1. If my team isn't in it, I go for the team that's never won it. I was with Carolina riiiight up until they went for two, up 40-15, with four and a half minutes in regulation. The entire team's behavior for those final four minutes iced it. Stay classy, Panthers.

2. Now that I live in Denver, I figured, why the hell not?

As to the HOF, well...

Two words: Sterling Sharpe.

His little bro's bitchslap to The Hall- during his own induction speech, no less -was one of the greatest moments in sports history.

Think about this too, Johnny Robinson, a six time First Team All-Pro, who's credited with creating the strong safety position, isn't in The Hall either.

I give the NHL a lot of flak (for a lot of good reasons) but at least they don't generally screw up their HOF inductees.

Since Wilson went to Simeon (a Chicago high school), I wonder if it would have inspired other Chicago stars to gravitate to DePaul.

Also, Wilson wasn't the only Chicago HS star that DePaul missed out on in the 80's and 90's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Fields

If they had both of these guys, and had NCAA Tourney success, that program may have been totally different today.

Point taken.

It's hard to say when he would have come out. Personally, I don't think he comes out until 1988 (because people usually stayed at least three years back then), at least.

If he comes out that year, I see the Clippers still taking Manning, and the Pacers have the #2 pick. In OTL, they took Rik Smits, but I don't see them passing on Wilson and pairing him with Reggie Miller and Chuck Person.

Spike Lee would be barred from The Garden to this day.

Here's a wild one: What if Wilson doesn't come out until 1989, and the Spurs (who picked 3rd in OTL) won the lottery for the second time in three years?

They could have paired Robinson with Wilson. That team may have made the 1990 Finals against Detroit (they came close to beating Portland that year in the second round), and went on to even greater success in the 90's (maybe Pop and Duncan aren't there today as a result).

That'd be pretty sweet.

I think that SA still takes Robinson (because back then, the perception was that you needed a good big man to win it all), but if Phoenix gets him, we may be looking at the team of the 90's if they still somehow get Barkley five years later.

That team would be filthy good. That's why posited Wilson coming out in '87. It would have been something to see.

 

[packmanwiscy]

How ya doin, Sigma? Who do ya got for tomorrow's SB?

I can't believe that Terrell Davis didn't get in the HOF again. The voters are biased against the Broncos, but a below average coach and a choke artist (Tony Dungy and Marvin Harrison) get in. I think that the players better wake up and realize that the HOF is a sham.

There's two big knocks on TD. He only played 7 years (and only four were productive), and the success Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and Clinton Portis under the same exact line.

You have to question how much of it was due to actual skill of Davis and how much was due to the Offensive line. I mean, for a recent example, look what happened to Demarco Murray once he was removed from the Cowboys offensive line.

Now, I also think that he should be in the Hall, but I can see why some people question him.

 

[AltSptHst]

There's two big knocks on TD. He only played 7 years (and only four were productive), and the success Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and Clinton Portis under the same exact line.

You have to question how much of it was due to actual skill of Davis and how much was due to the Offensive line. I mean, for a recent example, look what happened to Demarco Murray once he was removed from the Cowboys offensive line.

Now, I also think that he should be in the Hall, but I can see why some people question him.

Good point, but I think that Tony Dungy's and Marvin Harrison's Hall credentials are more questionable. Harrison was a choker in the playoffs with key drops and fumbles in several of Indy's losses. He should have to wait longer to get in.

Also, Dungy wasn't a HOF-caliber coach. Both of these guys rode Peyton Manning's coattails just like John Fox did.

 

[Deleted member 87099]

What if the Colts drafted Ryan Leaf instead of Peyton Manning in the 1998 NFL Draft.

 

[packmanwiscy]

Good point, but I think that Tony Dungy's and Marvin Harrison's Hall credentials are more questionable. Harrison was a choker in the playoffs with key drops and fumbles in several of Indy's losses. He should have to wait longer to get in.

Also, Dungy wasn't a HOF-caliber coach. Both of these guys rode Peyton Manning's coattails just like John Fox did.

Harrison shouldn't have gone in over TO. Maybe in a couple years, but not now.

But I do think Dungy is worthy. He also built up that Buccaneers before they kicked him to the curb for Gruden and was the coordinator of a very good Vikings defense before that.

 

[Nivek]

What if the Colts drafted Ryan Leaf instead of Peyton Manning in the 1998 NFL Draft.

Leaf Have talent but need a lot of discipline and time to develop, his friend peyton have both but need even more time too(both each other inagural season were pretty so-so to badly just leaf was burned more fast as Chargers never have faith on him) so if colts threat him like manning but with more pacience and severity he will fine. playoff caliber, maybe going a superbowl or two(winning it depend all the team too) rather collapsing as otl.

 

[YusaEmi]

1. What if Just Fontaine didn't have his career ending injury?

2. What if Argentina were caught match fixing in the 1978 world cup?

3. What if Ronaldo Nazario didn't get that terrible injury that nearly ended his career?

4. What if Messi played for Spain

5. What if Ronaldinho stayed in Barcelona longer

6. What if Ronaldinho stayed in form, maintained discipline and maintained an athletic lifestyle?

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

But I do think Dungy is worthy. He also built up that Buccaneers before they kicked him to the curb for Gruden and was the coordinator of a very good Vikings defense before that.

right - John Madden also had only 1 SB appearance, and Dungy's similar in that area. but, he built up the Bucs and was part of that Vikings' team, which I'd forgotten about. Also, there is is position as an ambassador of sorts, much like Madden's broadcasting career..

They - and Dick LeBeau a few years ago - point to the NFL Hall of Fame having more of a "totality of work" kind of induction. It kind of makes sense because you generally don't think of coordinators as HOF caliber even though they can be superstars at a certain area and - like specialists in baseball - really incredible at what they do, but unless you're a head coach or player you don't get the recognition. this is something you don't see in assistant coaches in baseball or basketball - not sure about hockey.

The question is, is the specialty of building a team/coordinating more like the Designated Hitter or the ace closer? Is it one where it's got some importance or can be vital for the team's efforts? The HOF leans toward the former, but like a guy who spends a fair amount of his career at DH but still had enough time in the field to earn a look otherwise(like Paul Molitor) the person won't be penalied and will have it looked at. And, it could push them over the top if they're borderline.(Like Lebeau and like some people see Dungy.)

So, in short, I do think Dungy deserves it just like Madden did.

Obl. what-if: What if Von Mller and Cam Newton trade places in the draft? Might Peyton have gone to the panthers knowing they had a good defense and were close otherwise? (And he'd have good weather games) Might he have just led a still good Panthers' team with an even better defense to a Super Bowl win over Newton's Broncos? Could have have lost to the Patriots(or even won) the year before?

 

[Texas Jack]

There's two big knocks on TD. He only played 7 years (and only four were productive), and the success Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and Clinton Portis under the same exact line.

You have to question how much of it was due to actual skill of Davis and how much was due to the Offensive line. I mean, for a recent example, look what happened to Demarco Murray once he was removed from the Cowboys offensive line.

Now, I also think that he should be in the Hall, but I can see why some people question him.

If we're arguing that Davis played only seven years and had just four productive seasons, then what about a guy who played just eight years, had three or four productive seasons, never played in a playoff game and whose team only had two or three winning seasons?

If that disqualifies him, you're going to have to tell Gale Sayers the bad news.

For what it's worth, I agree with both of you that Davis should be in the HOF, and I hope he gets inducted in the next couple of years.

 

[OldNavy1988]

Where else could the Rochester Royals move in 1957 besides Cincinnati?

Washington?
Baltimore?
Los Angeles?
Indianapolis?

 

[AltSptHst]

1984 Pacers and the Draft

What if the Trail Blazers did not trade with the Pacers and drafted Michael Jordan with the 2nd overall pick in the 1984 NBA Draft?How would this have changed the NBA,the Bulls and the Pacers?

If the Pacers are in that flip instead of the Blazers (butterflying away the 1981 Tom Owens trade), maybe their guy calls heads (the Blazer rep called tails), and they get the #1 pick.

They did have rookie Steve Stipanovich (the second overall pick in the 1983 Draft) at center, and 1983 All-Rookie performer Clark Kellogg at PF. However, they were lacking at guard (they had Butch Carter and Jerry Sichting as their starters).

That is where Jordan would come in.

With MJ, you have to think that the Pacers make the playoffs practically every year starting in 86. However, the roster would probably look a lot different starting with the 1986 draft (I think that they still get Tisdale in 85 because they didn't have that good of a team).

By the early 90's, maybe they end up with a team that has players like John Salley, Mark Jackson, and Shawn Kemp instead of Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, and Chuck Person.

Here's another factor in this, though: Jordan was a ball hog. In OTL, Bulls HC Doug Collins may have gotten fired because he moved him to point guard in 1989 so he would quit hogging the ball and pass to the better shooters on the team:

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/ejf/indexf.html

Also, the Bulls thought of trading MJ in 1988 to the Clippers before Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf decided against it:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-if-michael-jordan-was-traded-to-the-clippers

Reinsdorf was reluctant to get rid of his cash cow, and the Pacer owner at the time may have felt the same way, but who knows? Also, with Indianapolis being a small market and all, MJ may have demanded a trade at some point if they weren't winning.

 

[OldNavy1988]

If the Olympic Stadium in Montreal was built with an air supported roof like the Pontiac Silverdome, instead of the attempted retractable roof, would it still end up sitting unused today?

 

[TheMann]

If the Olympic Stadium in Montreal was built with an air supported roof like the Pontiac Silverdome, instead of the attempted retractable roof, would it still end up sitting unused today?

Main problem with Olympic Stadium is that it didn't really have a use after the Montreal Expos moved out, and combined baseball/football stadiums rarely work all that well.

 

[Alstein]

If the Olympic Stadium in Montreal was built with an air supported roof like the Pontiac Silverdome, instead of the attempted retractable roof, would it still end up sitting unused today?

Butterflying the 94 strike or making it not cancel the WS would have saved the Expos more than the stadium issues.

 

[AltSptHst]

Butterflying the 94 strike or making it not cancel the WS would have saved the Expos more than the stadium issues.

Here is an article about the 94 Expos:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...eague-baseball-strike-montreal-expos#comments

Here's a good answer to the question of 1994 being the turning point for the Expos:

Technically, no - Charles Bronfman practically begging other Quebec businessmen to buy the Expos in 1990 was the beginning of the end, as they instituted a partnership agreement where Claude Brochu could basically never ask them for money, forcing the team to hold fire sale after fire sale, which eventually killed the franchise. They showed an astonishing lack of foresight, as MLB is only earning about six times the revenues it did in 1991, and they could have made hundreds of millions of dollars by keeping the club going.
I know fears of separation and a sluggish economy were a large reason why, but Quebec businessmen are pretty goddamn stupid when it comes to sports - four years AFTER the referendum, the Molson company had an almost as difficult time selling the Canadiens, and George Gillette (yes, the LFC one) finally bought the team for quite a bit under market value. The explosion in sports broadcasting rights, a more active economy and separation on the backburner meant that when Gillette sold the club 10 years later, he made a profit of about $300 million. Derp.
Fortunately quite a few large corporations in Quebec and Canada have realized that they missed a major money-making opportunity, and there's rumors that Bell (the main rival of Rogers, who owns the Blue Jays) are behind efforts to gain a new franchise in Montreal, although there's not yet the critical mass to gain a new team.
But if you put the Expos in a good downtown ballpark - two things the Big O is not - and don't sell off their best players, they will draw. The old American stereotype of French-Canadians not being interested in baseball is completely false - indeed, over 70% of Quebecers want the Expos back (and I guarantee some of those who said no don't like public stadium subsidies, not baseball itself).