Soviets offer demilitarized Poland and Germany

Derek Jackson

Are there any circumstances under which a Soviet government would make such an offer between 1945 and 1961?

Would it be accepted by the West?

If it stuck does that end the cold war?
 

MerryPrankster

I think the Sovs at one point offered a united, neutral, demilitarized Germany, but the West rejected it out of fear it was a trick (a Trojan horse to get East German Communists in control of a united Germany, I think).
 

Derek Jackson

MerryPrankster said:
I think the Sovs at one point offered a united, neutral, demilitarized Germany, but the West rejected it out of fear it was a trick (a Trojan horse to get East German Communists in control of a united Germany, I think).
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I knew of Stalin's offer.The thing is that Poland was of huge political importance to the West. Also a bigger demilitarized area might make both sides feel safe.
 

Steffen

Social democrat Kurt Schumacher winning the elections in Germany, he (as I think honestly) believed a communist takeover wouldn´t happen, european integration doesn´t kick off as it did historically, relations to the western powers stay cold. (Schumacher had the tendency to lecture the western powers on what a Anti-Nazi stand is and should have been.)
 

Prinz Richard Eugen

After losing 20 - 30 million in WWII, the constant in Soviet foreign policy was to keep the potential enemies as far from the Motherland as possible. A large Soviet force in Gernany and Poland would do that better than no forces. How long would a demilitarized pair of old enemies remain that way? No way does the USSR give up these advanced positions.
 

Alcuin

Banned
How?

Derek Jackson said:
Are there any circumstances under which a Soviet government would make such an offer between 1945 and 1961?

Would it be accepted by the West?

If it stuck does that end the cold war?
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Stalin dead, Beria in charge, Soviet Union preoccupied with other issues. No, it doesn't end the cold war but it might well shorten it. (Beria, of course, has no intention of honouring the agreement but his successor does).
 

oberdada

Steffen said:
Social democrat Kurt Schumacher winning the elections in Germany, he (as I think honestly) believed a communist takeover wouldn´t happen, european integration doesn´t kick off as it did historically, relations to the western powers stay cold. (Schumacher had the tendency to lecture the western powers on what a Anti-Nazi stand is and should have been.)
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You ned a HUGE PoD for Schumacher to become chancellor in 1949.
Something like the introduction of the Deutsche Mark leading to desaster, or Adenauer beeing believed to be a Soviet Spy.

Even if the Social Democrats had gotten more votes (I would call anything more than 35 % ASBish) they would have had a tough time finding a partner for a coalition.

Schumacher did not want a nutral Germany, he wanted a free GErmany, within the borders of the Weimar republic.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
I made Schumacher chancellor in my "Hitler's Mediterranean Strategy" TL, albeit only of West Germany (FRG north of Main).

And why Germany in the Weimar republic borders? Do you have sources for that? And if it's true, when did the SPD decide to give up claims for Pomerania, Silesia and East Prussia?
 

Steffen

oberdada said:
You ned a HUGE PoD for Schumacher to become chancellor in 1949.
Something like the introduction of the Deutsche Mark leading to desaster, or Adenauer beeing believed to be a Soviet Spy.

Even if the Social Democrats had gotten more votes (I would call anything more than 35 % ASBish) they would have had a tough time finding a partner for a coalition.

Schumacher did not want a nutral Germany, he wanted a free GErmany, within the borders of the Weimar republic.
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PODing Adenauer out is quite easy, regarding his age. Secondly, you could get a split in the christian democrats between Jakob Kaiser and the left catholicism and the more protestant-conservative wing.
If Kaiser gets his Grand Coalition, Erhard will most likely be out of politics, and live the life of an economics professor writing leaders for the FAZ.

This could lead to the popular call for a all-party government, lead by the now-biggest party.
 

Alcuin

Banned
Steffen said:
PODing Adenauer out is quite easy, regarding his age. Secondly, you could get a split in the christian democrats between Jakob Kaiser and the left catholicism and the more protestant-conservative wing.
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Or you could have an Israeli agent assassinate him as attempted in OTL.
 

oberdada

about Germany in the borders of the Weimar Republic,
I read it in a speech of Schumacher once, during his lifetime, no German party officially gave up the regions east of the Oder.

The Kommunists were the first to do so in 1953, when East Germany recognised the border.

Splitting the Christian Democrats isn't easy.

It could only work, if, for some weird reason (somebody might start screeming ASB) the Eastern CDU is left alone after Kaiser becomes chairman. It was well on its way to take the place of the no longer existing Social Democrats under Kaiser in OTL.

With a strong base in the (protestant) East confronting Adenauers strongholds in the Rhineland and other catholic areas it might work.

This, of course, works fine with the original idea of this thread.

The other problem is, Schumacher would have never ever accepted a demilitariesed germany on the long run, since it would have meant a limitation on national souveranity.
 

Homer

oberdada said:
about Germany in the borders of the Weimar Republic,
I read it in a speech of Schumacher once, during his lifetime, no German party officially gave up the regions east of the Oder.
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True. In the 50s, a large majority wanted the eastern territories back. After all, these territories were not lost technically, but just "under governance" of Poland and the Soviet Union. I'd say that about 10% of the population in the west were from these provinces, maybe more.

oberdada said:
Splitting the Christian Democrats isn't easy.
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Actually, it's not. Establishing a christian party encompassing both confessions took quite an effort and required a lot of work by Adenauer and others. It would have been not at all surprising if after WWII the pre-war catholic Zentrum just reemerges. After all, the christian democrats are still quite catholic even today.
 
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