Max Sinister
Banned
A while ago someone suggested the concept of double PODs / WIs: You take an existing ATL, choose one point after its POD, and introduce another POD at that time. We already have some examples, like the double TL of "The Coronation of the Hun" and "Flee! Flee! They're crowning the Hun". I thought I'd introduce that concept to that TL I'm pushing everywhere...
So, here are some POD for the Chaos TL. I'll update the list from time to time. Feel free to discuss, and start your own TLs with them.
[post=535354]Central Asia 1200-40[/post]
- Temujin dies even earlier
His sons are even younger and the steppe peoples even less united
- Instead of Ogadai, another son of Temujin survives
Ogadai was the most talented of Genghis' sons IOTL. Would whomever be as able to lead the hordes instead?
- Some "Dog of war" decides to lead the people instead of one of Temujin's sons
If he can defeat his rivals, the Mongols may restart their conquests earlier - probably less successful than OTL, but still better than in the Chaos TL
- Ogadai is less successful than I thought, loses against the Merkites / Keraites / Naimans / Uighurs / Kara-Kitai.
Which makes him and maybe the Mongols too a footnote in history.
- Jalal-ad-Din doesn't manage to hold the Choresmian empire together
It breaks apart, which gives the Mongols a chance for expansion into Central Asia.
- Choresm doesn't take Baghdad
The Caliph was already lucky once, why not twice?
[post=546902]East Asia 1200-60[/post]
- Jin China doesn't conquer the Tangutes
Could well be. So China stays split into not two, but three states, until the Black Death makes things interesting.
- Jin China makes another war with Song China
I'd bet on the Jin in that case.
- Song China manages to pull some necessary reforms
Could that bring the infamous Chinese Industrial Revolution?
[post=541336]The Middle East 1200-60[/post]
- Rum-Seljuks attack Nikaia earlier
It's not impossible... Nikaia might become a Seljuk tributary, and Constantinople could fall before 1300.
- Zangid states in Northern Iraq fall to the Rum-Seljuks instead of Choresm
Which gives the former a better chance to conquer Syria later.
- The Mamluks don't take power in Egypt
Could well be. IOTL the Choresmians rampaged through the Middle East, so the Egyptian sultans had to get more mamluk slave soldiers, who became too mighty... The conquest of Jerusalem could also be prevented, since the sultan doesn't have to think about what to do with those soldiers.
[post=553123]Eastern Europe, 1200-1250[/post]
- Volga Hungarians stay in Russia
So Hungary stays weaker. Either Bela IV invites the Kumans to Hungary as OTL, or Hungary really loses badly against Otakar Przemysl, Serbia, Bulgaria and later the Muslims.
- Alexander Nevsky takes power in one Russian princedom
Difficult to predict. Of course it'd be interesting to see what a man with his talents could do being king.
- Bela IV defeats Ottokar Przemysl
And we get Hungary-Austria.
So, here are some POD for the Chaos TL. I'll update the list from time to time. Feel free to discuss, and start your own TLs with them.
[post=535354]Central Asia 1200-40[/post]
- Temujin dies even earlier
His sons are even younger and the steppe peoples even less united
- Instead of Ogadai, another son of Temujin survives
Ogadai was the most talented of Genghis' sons IOTL. Would whomever be as able to lead the hordes instead?
- Some "Dog of war" decides to lead the people instead of one of Temujin's sons
If he can defeat his rivals, the Mongols may restart their conquests earlier - probably less successful than OTL, but still better than in the Chaos TL
- Ogadai is less successful than I thought, loses against the Merkites / Keraites / Naimans / Uighurs / Kara-Kitai.
Which makes him and maybe the Mongols too a footnote in history.
- Jalal-ad-Din doesn't manage to hold the Choresmian empire together
It breaks apart, which gives the Mongols a chance for expansion into Central Asia.
- Choresm doesn't take Baghdad
The Caliph was already lucky once, why not twice?
[post=546902]East Asia 1200-60[/post]
- Jin China doesn't conquer the Tangutes
Could well be. So China stays split into not two, but three states, until the Black Death makes things interesting.
- Jin China makes another war with Song China
I'd bet on the Jin in that case.
- Song China manages to pull some necessary reforms
Could that bring the infamous Chinese Industrial Revolution?
[post=541336]The Middle East 1200-60[/post]
- Rum-Seljuks attack Nikaia earlier
It's not impossible... Nikaia might become a Seljuk tributary, and Constantinople could fall before 1300.
- Zangid states in Northern Iraq fall to the Rum-Seljuks instead of Choresm
Which gives the former a better chance to conquer Syria later.
- The Mamluks don't take power in Egypt
Could well be. IOTL the Choresmians rampaged through the Middle East, so the Egyptian sultans had to get more mamluk slave soldiers, who became too mighty... The conquest of Jerusalem could also be prevented, since the sultan doesn't have to think about what to do with those soldiers.
[post=553123]Eastern Europe, 1200-1250[/post]
- Volga Hungarians stay in Russia
So Hungary stays weaker. Either Bela IV invites the Kumans to Hungary as OTL, or Hungary really loses badly against Otakar Przemysl, Serbia, Bulgaria and later the Muslims.
- Alexander Nevsky takes power in one Russian princedom
Difficult to predict. Of course it'd be interesting to see what a man with his talents could do being king.
- Bela IV defeats Ottokar Przemysl
And we get Hungary-Austria.