So about a year ago I asked what was the earliest realistic date that the industrial revolution could start (link here if anyone's interested: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=279080). Now I'm wondering about specific inventions, mainly as the title says the steam engine, telegraph and locomotive. Were these inventions (or more specifically the later two) only able to be created in the 19th century or could they have came about earlier?
Earliest workable steam engine, telagraph and locomotive?
- Thread starter Emperor Constantine
- Start date
The telegraph could have conceivably been developed somewhat earlier, maybe in the last couple of decades of the 18th C. As it was, the idea of a telegraph on electric principles was conceived in the 1750s. Crude telegraphs were being experimented with in the the very 1st decade of the 19th C.
The development of practical steam engines and locomotives is dependent on advances in metallurgy and sensor technology (pressure and temperature gauges). I don't think you can shave a lot of time off the development curve for these.
The development of practical steam engines and locomotives is dependent on advances in metallurgy and sensor technology (pressure and temperature gauges). I don't think you can shave a lot of time off the development curve for these.
Earliest optic telegraph - 1683 (Hooke's telegraph).
Earliest workable steam engine - mid-18th century. Pretty much (if you need this for our project) - you can switch an invention between generations of this family
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Hornblower
They pioneered this type of steam engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_steam_engine
Just like we did with Chamberlains and the Bank of England.
Locomotive/Steamboat - late 18th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_locomotive
It will be cool if Hornblower's engine takes the place of Watt's engine from OTL.
Earliest workable steam engine - mid-18th century. Pretty much (if you need this for our project) - you can switch an invention between generations of this family
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Hornblower
They pioneered this type of steam engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_steam_engine
Just like we did with Chamberlains and the Bank of England.
Locomotive/Steamboat - late 18th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_locomotive
It will be cool if Hornblower's engine takes the place of Watt's engine from OTL.
Thanks! and yes it is for the project. I'm wanting to make sure my ideas are realistic, so I'll definitely be checking these links out.
Steam engine??? Does this include the steam pump?? It should. Thomas Savery 1698! You maybe able to knock off 75-100 years for that
Jeronimo de Ayanz was granted a patent for a steam powered pump in 1606. It was used successfully in some mines in Spain (he was mine inspector under Phillip III)
If you can read spanish, take a look to the spanish article in the wiki. That guy was a genius
If you can read spanish, take a look to the spanish article in the wiki. That guy was a genius
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomen_engine
Thomas Savery pump is earlier version of this, I think, and it leads to Hornblower stuff. In fact, in long run Hornblower engine was BETTER than Watt engine, it's just Watt patented his thing first.
I have already told about Hooke's telegraph. Realistically the first small lines by now (1688-1689) shall be tested. Like Winchester-London line or something.
Or the most likely test line is Windsor-London, seeing as Prince Rupert was a backer of Hooke and the Constable of Windsor Castle.
Guys, look what I found. Apparently - even earlier prototype than Savery's machine existed. Did not take off for the same reason as Rupertinoe boring mills - nobody wanted to risk money on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_steam_engine
Probably followed by a London-Chatham line, for fast communication between the Admiralty and London's closest naval base?
Yes, that's likely. My boyfriend proposed that Hooke's system can be improved for naval use, with flags instead of planks, or, alternatively with colored planks - for added visibility in bad weather.
Basic steam engines are fairly easy to build, possible even in antiquity, it's just that you need more precise tools to build ones that are efficient enough to be very useful. Still for barely plausible super-early development, how about this:
Starting around 600 BC there was a primitive railway system on the Isthmus of Corinth, letting shipborn cargo avoid the long trip around the Peloponnese peninsula. Let's say a Hero of Alexandria type genius comes up with a primitive steam engine a few centuries earlier somewhere around Corinth. It wouldn't be too much of an intuitive leap to try hooking a basic steam engine up to the existing railway to save on all the human and animal power currently being used to haul stuff along it. It just has to be barely efficient enough to be worthwhile at first, and then a few centuries of trial and error can turn a very basic engine into something more practical, which could start to be used in other contexts. A few Greek cities could start to get rail links between each other, and then if the Roman conquest has happened as IOTL they could spread through the whole Roman world. If they got them working decently railways definitely seem like the kind of thing the Romans would be in to.
Starting around 600 BC there was a primitive railway system on the Isthmus of Corinth, letting shipborn cargo avoid the long trip around the Peloponnese peninsula. Let's say a Hero of Alexandria type genius comes up with a primitive steam engine a few centuries earlier somewhere around Corinth. It wouldn't be too much of an intuitive leap to try hooking a basic steam engine up to the existing railway to save on all the human and animal power currently being used to haul stuff along it. It just has to be barely efficient enough to be worthwhile at first, and then a few centuries of trial and error can turn a very basic engine into something more practical, which could start to be used in other contexts. A few Greek cities could start to get rail links between each other, and then if the Roman conquest has happened as IOTL they could spread through the whole Roman world. If they got them working decently railways definitely seem like the kind of thing the Romans would be in to.
We are talking about speeding up OTL industrial revolution for a TL with a PoD in mid-17th century, so Hero's steam engine is interesting but a bit off-topic when we're talking about shortcuts of OTL inventions (for example, under French patent system Hornblower's engine would have priority over Watt's engine as Watt's engine did not have enough novelty compared to existing models, while in Britain patent law worked on first come first served principle).