Anglo-Saxon Vinland

You can never get enough Vinland threads, right?

So, William the Conquerer marches in, takes England, and many Anglo-Saxons disperse from England. Some head to nearby Scotland and Ireland. Many more joins their Scandinavian cousins in the Varangian Guard, and come to comprise an important component of that elite force and take full advantage of the opportunity to fight Normans in Sicily.

What if some, however, decided to join the Norse settlements in North America? Could this have provided the military muscle needed to withstand the natives?

It would help them I'm sure. It might have increased there numbers enough to make it a viable colony.

As an alternative to the Varangian Guard, I guess this could work. I doubt a heavily Anglo-Saxon Vinland would do any worse than a purely Norse one, given that the Norse were apt to be absorbed by the preexisting peoples wherever they went (Normandy, Kievan Rus, Danelaw, etc.) whereas the English were a bit more...vigorous in settling places. That being said, I'm not sure it'd make any difference in the great scheme of things and will likely fail as well.

FleetMac said:

As an alternative to the Varangian Guard, I guess this could work.

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I imagine that, while many would certainly appreciate the money, titles, and prestige that come with serving in the Guard, others would want Land. Land that those stinking Normans wouldn't try to take from them.

Now, for extra martial fun, some might serve in the Guard and then, after their term is up, head west.

Godƿin Godƿinson Goe Vast ter Vinland, yah?

Godƿin Godƿinson Goe Vast ter Vinland, yah?

A thousand years later, lutefisk is served with poutine at Tostig Hortonsons' locations from Vinlandburgh to Vest Neu Marklandton...

Best,

Hmm, maybe an Anglo-Saxon *Canada, then? It's not all that much more cold than Scandinavia, or Northumbria for that matter. And hell, maybe even down the coast a piece?

Of course, that's assuming the "Skraelings" or whatever the Anglisc call the Natives don't drive them into the sea like OTL.

EDIT: On reflection, IF the Anglo-Saxons are able to help Vinland survive unlike OTL, perhaps whoever "discovers" the New World stumbles upon them and does a double-take? Think about it; England continues as OTL, starts settling Virginia and New England, only to reach Vinland (perhaps Newfoundland) and wonder why everybody's speaking a Native-and-Norse modified Old English. Just imagine what contemporary writers will do with that sort of discovery.

I'm picturing the Anglo-Saxons sailing over with some Norse to help secure whatever is left to the Norse settlements (if anything) and then sailing down the coast to found their own. Perhaps some along the St. Lawrence, perhaps some around Boston, Providence, or Manhattan; they seem to be the best sites for colonization in the area.

The thing is, if the Anglo-Saxons are in enough numbers to reliably secure Norse holdings in the New World (remember, the Norse were quite thin on the ground and landing on inhospitable land), they'd be in larger numbers demographically than the Norse. Not to say they wouldn't call themselves "Vinlandish" at the end of the day just like the Norsemen, especially since the two groups at that point in history were mostly alike anyway. If there's any noticeable shift to occur, it'd likely be in terms of either religion or language (I don't see a majority-Pagan Vinland existing if there's that many English, for one).

And having the St. Lawrence/Great Lakes area settled would be quite neat. It'd be fairly inhabitable, defensible (though not invulnerable of course) and isolated enough for future explorers to not run across them right away. I know I bring up the "stumble-upon" thing a bit, it's just funny to me

FleetMac said:

The thing is, if the Anglo-Saxons are in enough numbers to reliably secure Norse holdings in the New World (remember, the Norse were quite thin on the ground and landing on inhospitable land), they'd be in larger numbers demographically than the Norse. Not to say they wouldn't call themselves "Vinlandish" at the end of the day just like the Norsemen, especially since the two groups at that point in history were mostly alike anyway. If there's any noticeable shift to occur, it'd likely be in terms of either religion or language (I don't see a majority-Pagan Vinland existing if there's that many English, for one).

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Agreed 100%. Heck, if you assume 20-40 Anglo-Saxons coming over on one ship, a handful of ships will carry enough Anglo-Saxons to outnumber the Norse in America at this point.

DominusNovus said:

Agreed 100%. Heck, if you assume 20-40 Anglo-Saxons coming over on one ship, a handful of ships will carry enough Anglo-Saxons to outnumber the Norse in America at this point.

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I think THIS post by the late, great Robert Perkins has a good map covering the max extent of a possible Vinland bolstered by Anglo-Saxon manpower (it's from his "Britons Triumphant" TL, another concept that might create a "push" factor for settling the New World with enough tech advancement). That's also plenty of room for the Natives to not feel too hemmed-in by I think, especially since the red portion would mostly be an estimation instead of actual land under "Vinlandish" control. And of course there's the question of possible colonization efforts down the line that may not run across them for some time. Helluva culture shock for both parties, but one that could be dealt with in time (especially if the 13 colonies or an equivalent are founded, *Quebec ITTL wouldn't be any more heartburn for London than it was IOTL).