POD's for a more advanced Pre-Columbian Americas

Catching up on Jared's excellent "Lands of Red and Gold" timeline while I was home sick the past few days has got me thinking about the enormous potential shifts in society and development based on certain POD's. Of course, in LoRaG the mutation of a strain of yams allows the development of advanced agricultural societies in Australia, far more advanced than anything that developed there in OTL.

So, what sort of PODs could result in significantly more advanced American societies before contact with the Europeans? I could never quite make sense of the fact that the American societies were on the whole so much less advanced - after all resources are relatively abundant (if not too plentiful), there are a number of solid domesticable crops (although they perhaps don't led themselves to primitve cultivation as much as the middle-eastern founder crops,) and there is plenty of room for the creation and sustaining of large civilizations.

In my mind, there are two sorts of PODs for this type of thing:

Geographic/evolutionary PODs - these POD's occur long before humans appear in the America's, and concern the evolution of different crops, animal species etc. For instance, a better strain of wild rice (e.g. the Mississippi Rice TL) the no-extinction of american horses etc.

Cultural/human PODs - This category has a great potential for change, but since they are relatively arbitrary, its much harder to predict how they would come about and what effects they would have. Basically, this category includes anything is a result of human activity. So if in an alternate reality, some Native American sitting around gets a brilliant idea and that results in a more advanced society - that would fit in here.

One of the interesting possibilities for the second category I thought of would be if an artic blizzard wiped out the first (or better yet, the most successful) band of hunter gatherers that crossed the Bering strait, butterflying away most of Pre-columbian american history. Of course this is once again to unpredictable for an serious discussion.


So what sort of POD's would lead to more advanced Pre-Columbian societies. For the purposes of discussion assume there is a butterfly net in place (this is not the place to discuss whether Polynesians brought chickens to or from south america, etc.)
 
Well we've discussed Mississippi rice, Inca gymnasts on condors (or maybe Capybara), so.... how about the wheel? Wasn't it some Olmec kid's toy or something? Just have that development progress to full function. Even if they don't have draft animals, dragging a wheeled cart is going to be better than just hauling stuff on your back. Usually I'm not too pleased with my ancestors (the hearts thing) but it's kind of proud to have come that close to independently inventing the wheel which as far as we can tell, no one ever did except the first time.
 
Well, not exactly relevant but advanced can mean many different things. In some ways and regards the pre-Columbian societies were more advanced than Europe, they had complex politics, hierarchies, science, etc, they only really lagged behind in tools. Problem there was that there wasn't much iron, materials for making bronze wasn't exactly plentiful, and while they did use copper for jewelry and weapons, it was too malleable for most tools, and they simply couldn't find a reason to replace ol' reliable flint, chert, and obsidian. Hell, they got pretty damn advanced when it came to flint knapping, they could make the most intricate obsidian carvings, stuff not easy to replicate even today, just that they didn't advance with better materials.

About the wheel, the reason that didn't see more widespread use was roughly the same for copper tools, they couldn't find for it besides toys. Aside from having no draft animals (the largest animals they could domesticate were deer, not exactly good for labor), conditions off-road are terrible for wheelbarrows or rickshaws. Also, and here's a biggie, manual labor was very important in many regards. Firstly, they thought the effort used to make something made it more worthwhile, and also, much of the manual labor used to build grander projects or do more menial tasks was done by slaves, who were usually criminals or prisoners-of-war, mostly the latter. Getting pow's to enslave gave the leaders reason to fight the enemy states for other reasons too.
 
The Andean Civilizations used copper and smelted bronze. Whether they used the bronze in tools or just as jewelry, I'm not entirely certain. They've been doing that for a few centuries. Perhaps if the craft were to spread north when they first learned how, then Indians in the U.S. might be metal workers. Bronze weapons might not make a big difference against Europeans, but bronze tools could revolutionize their societies.
 
What they really need is animals. If we can somehow keep the horses from dying, or give the Americas another draft animal (mammoth? enlarged capybara?more widespread llama?), then the wheel can be used. With the wheel, there is more communication between regions. You could have bronze become more commonplace in MesoAmerica.

And the animals would provide a new weapon for the Americas. Animal-Human contact of any sort allows new diseases to pop up. If Cortes lands in Mexico and starts coughing up blood from some human/mastodon disease, then attacks are slowed.
 
What they really need is animals. If we can somehow keep the horses from dying, or give the Americas another draft animal (mammoth? enlarged capybara?more widespread llama?), then the wheel can be used. With the wheel, there is more communication between regions. You could have bronze become more commonplace in MesoAmerica.

And the animals would provide a new weapon for the Americas. Animal-Human contact of any sort allows new diseases to pop up. If Cortes lands in Mexico and starts coughing up blood from some human/mastodon disease, then attacks are slowed.


Horses 12,000 years ago were not the same as today. Lots of breading has made them capable of carrying humans. I think the first warhorses just pulled chariots. I know the Indians made corn cobs what they are today, but could they do the same with horses without eating them?
 
Geographic/evolutionary PODs - these POD's occur long before humans appear in the America's, and concern the evolution of different crops, animal species etc. For instance, a better strain of wild rice (e.g. the Mississippi Rice TL) the no-extinction of american horses etc.
AFAIK, American horse extinction was simultaneous with the end of the Clovis culture.

http://www.saguaro-juniper.com/i_and_i/history/megafauna.html


For one i don't think i've seen before, how about surviving Hippidions? Wild horses endemic to the Andes. That wouldn't necessarily be any different than llama domestication, but it has possibilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippidion
http://www.springerlink.com/content/chbbx79nk1bq9mhd/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=9d517b9e053f594a81f2b8d7ff7d37cf
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ap/as/2001/00000028/00000004/art00647?crawler=true
http://milkriverarchive.blogspot.com/2005/08/env-horse-evolution-in-americas.html

One of the interesting possibilities for the second category I thought of would be if an artic blizzard wiped out the first (or better yet, the most successful) band of hunter gatherers that crossed the Bering strait, butterflying away most of Pre-columbian american history. Of course this is once again to unpredictable for an serious discussion.
On that line, how about something happening to the Clovises? Could get some more surviving N. American megafauna.

Horses 12,000 years ago were not the same as today. Lots of breading has made them capable of carrying humans. I think the first warhorses just pulled chariots. I know the Indians made corn cobs what they are today, but could they do the same with horses without eating them?
Domesticating horses doesn't preclude eating them. That could be an important first step.
 
AFAIK, American horse extinction was simultaneous with the end of the Clovis culture.

True, true. The horse and continue existence of certain megafuana could probably be fit under both of the categories I outlined.

Anyway, I think the continued existence of the hippidiom has some interesting possibilities. Over time it could probably be bred into a relatively robust work or pack animal like the llama or donkey, with perhaps some additional capability to riding etc. Given that Andean culture was already some of the most technologically advanced in the americas (construction of roads, metallurgy etc,) perhaps it could have developed even more with this.

However, im also not entirely convinced that the continued existence of megafuana would be beneficial to American development. It may lead to larger populations, however, I dont think it would lead to the greater development of agricultural societies etc. I believe that societies that live in areas of natural abundance, or were the food supply is easily obtained by hunter-gathering are less likely to advance technologically/culturally vs. areas were agriculture is neccesary.

I think the key to creating more advanced societies is encouraging a shift away from hunter-gathering to sedentary agriculture - from were civilizations can develop. What could be the impetus to drive such behavior in North America, were agriculture seems to have played a supplementary role at best (outside of the southwest pueblo areas of course)
 
Perhaps copperworking becomes more integral to the Adena or Hopewell cultures and spreads throughout eastern North America.
 
Perhaps copperworking becomes more integral to the Adena or Hopewell cultures and spreads throughout eastern North America.


They worked copper too? Was it for tools or just jewelry. I'm still trying to figure out what Andean Bronze was used for. I think that maybe, just maybe, the Inca used a few copper tools. That was mentioned in the Incan Fortification Opsrey book.
 
Ive looked into it a bit myself and it appears that by and large the Andean societies used copper and limited amounts of bronze primarily for jewelry and other decorations. It appears that some metal tipped tools were used, with small sharpened ingots attached to spears etc. What I want to know is how extensive smelting was vs cold smithing.
 
They worked copper too? Was it for tools or just jewelry. I'm still trying to figure out what Andean Bronze was used for. I think that maybe, just maybe, the Inca used a few copper tools. That was mentioned in the Incan Fortification Opsrey book.

They found a few copper axes, but it seems that they mainly used copper for ornaments and jewelry. The later Hopewell cultures used some silver for jewelry as well.
 
How about having the Maya not collapse? By the time the Spanish arrive you'd have an established civilization with all kinds of more advanced technology we can only speculate about. And since they were avid traders one would imagine they would have had some contact with both the Inca and the peoples in modern-day USA, perhaps spreading some of their technology around?

Another one could be a more successful Vinland settlement. If the Vikings started going down the coast of North America they'd eventually find some place with bog iron they could extract and trade with the natives, perhaps even teaching them how to do it. Most important of all though: they could bring horses (back) to the Americas some 400 years before they arrived IOTL.
 
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