IOTL, the committee that the Catholic Monarchs sent to address Columbus thought that the idea was impractical. So what would happen I'd they didn't fund his operation. Where else might Columbus go to seek funding, or would that be the end of his game?
Spain denied Columbus?
- Thread starter MrNumbahOne
- Start date
He would probably just stands and continues to ask. It's basically what he did since the 80's after all.
Apart from Portugal and Spain, there wasn't really another side interested on maritime explorations in the Atlantic. England was busy recovering from war, France was focused on Italy, Brittany was taken over by France,...
Apart from Portugal and Spain, there wasn't really another side interested on maritime explorations in the Atlantic. England was busy recovering from war, France was focused on Italy, Brittany was taken over by France,...
Columbus was about to go to France. However France would have rejected him. So basically Columbus dies a merchant man who continually tried to get someone to fund his venture to the west. Within half a century of Columbus's death it becomes official that there is a new continent and fishers have been going there for a while. However colonial ventures don't pick up for a while. Probably a few outposts but without much motive no country will really colonize for a while. Spain starting colonizing cause they were there. Portugal because of an accident. Britain and France to rival Spain. Spain would probably more focused on Europe.
Redhand
Banned
He probably would just continue to ask them and eventually they would accept his proposition. Portugal might have reconsidered as time went on and they realized the potential for even further exploration. I'm not conpletely convinced Columbus wouldn't go talk to the Moroccans if he was rejected enough. It seems implausible but they probably were willing to look west if it would allow them to compete with their obviously stronger northern neighbors.
twovultures
Donor
Possibly within a decade. The Portuguese hit the coast of Brazil in 1500, as part of an expedition down the coast of Africa. It's possible that they deliberately went further out in response to Columbus' discovery, but seeing how close the coasts of West Africa and Brazil are, it's possible it really was a fortunate discovery. My money is on a Portuguese landing at *Brazil, and that it occurs within a decade.
Columbus may still be around to cash in on what he will no doubt spin as proof of his foresight-he could still sail for Spain in this scenario, or he could end up sailing for England, taking Cabot's place.
Yeah it all depends. However coloniation would still be on the low end because without a strong Spanish presence there isn't much need for a large colony. However as soon gold is discovered bam colonization flares
twovultures
Donor
I guess the question is, where is gold discovered and by whom?
The Portuguese won't find much gold on the coast of Brazil. Eventually they will probably set up sugar plantations as per OTL, but this will take them a while.
If Columbus sails for England, he will probably find gold or some mineral that's close enough to it, but the English will not really have a lot of power projection at that point compared to the Spanish. They also don't have sugarcane, so the Caribbean won't seem very useful to them without easy gold. We may still get filibusters, with English 'conquistadors' trying to take over land and reduce the Taino to servitude, but this will be a slower process than Spain's more systematic conquest of the Greater Antilles IOTL.
If Columbus sailed for England he would sail to Canada
Some Spaniard discovers gold and colonization skyrockets. However the advantage the Spanish had OTL of mass colonizing while everyone else was occupied is gone so the Caribbean will be more diverse and so will the Gulf and Central America
Cryostorm
Donor
This would be a good way to have surviving native states in the America's as Spain's conquests of the Aztec and Inca empires came from events almost impossible to replicate.
If colonization is slower then the Aztecs, and later Inca, are hit with the old world plagues but have a decade or two to weather them and recover. If the Mesoamerican states connect the diseases to the Europeans then Europe may have a very difficult time subjugating them, which they probably will not until they discover gold.
The Inca would be the real beneficiary of no Columbus and slower colonization since the longer it takes the Europeans to get through Mesoamerica the longer the Inca have to recover from the diseases and civil war.
If colonization is slower then the Aztecs, and later Inca, are hit with the old world plagues but have a decade or two to weather them and recover. If the Mesoamerican states connect the diseases to the Europeans then Europe may have a very difficult time subjugating them, which they probably will not until they discover gold.
The Inca would be the real beneficiary of no Columbus and slower colonization since the longer it takes the Europeans to get through Mesoamerica the longer the Inca have to recover from the diseases and civil war.
So Berber colonialization of the Americas? Of the Wattasid Dynasty? Sounds very interesting. Can someone comment on the plausibility of this.
Not very plausible because Columbus was a devout Christian which is why he was a monster with the natives
That's very unlikely.
Even if these had the ressource for such, and weren't greatly weakened by inner divisions, which they hadn't and they were, Marrocco would be the prime target for Spain and Portugal.
Not only as IOTL, as seen as a continuity of Reconquista, but to definitely takeover the western African traderoads, especially to take control of gold trade.
England would sponsor him. A growing faction in the Court advocated for exploration. I have read several historians who argue that Henry was going to fund a 2 ship expedition. This makes landfall in North America somewhere and then teh Spanish fund catch up expeditions that make it to the Carribean.
Everything looks about the same just the dates are mixed up.
England might have been able to fund a few small colonies but in the 1500s England lacked the population boom needed to really fuel colonization. In Henry VIII still coems to power its possible NA might become a destination for oppressed English Catholics. Who knows Utopia might have been created when Henry exiled his friend instead of killing him.
Everything looks about the same just the dates are mixed up.
England might have been able to fund a few small colonies but in the 1500s England lacked the population boom needed to really fuel colonization. In Henry VIII still coems to power its possible NA might become a destination for oppressed English Catholics. Who knows Utopia might have been created when Henry exiled his friend instead of killing him.
Extremely unlikely I would say. Not strictly speaking ASB, but very close.