MacArthur canned after Pearl Harbor

During the attack on Pearl Harbor MacArthur received news and did nothing! The new B17 bombers set on Clark Filed until the Japanese came. WI FDR canned him instead of Short? Who woul replace Macarthur? Also who'd replace all the toadies and yesmen like Whitney and Sutherland? I think FDR would get away with it IF he presented the evdence to the people.

Caring out a courtmartial during the Philippines is being invaded and disrupting the chain of command at the most critical time doesn't seem smart to me. In hindsight we can see that he should have done things differently, but at the time, with sporatic information coming in and the limitations of communications, what else could he have done?

It's actually not true that he did nothing, the aircraft at Wake field were dispersed. unfortunately, the japanese attack was delayed by poor weather conditions and came in after they had returned and were arming to hit Taiwan. Ironically, MacArthur would have fared better had the response been slower

On December 7, 1941, Douglas MacArthur was the commander of USAFFE (United States Army Forces - Far East), which included the Philippine Department, Philippine Army (2 regular and 10 reserve divisions), and the Far East Air Force (formerly, Philippine Army Air Corps). MacArthur's area of responsibility was the Phillipines. There was no viable reason for FDR to fire MacArthur, especially in place of Short. Walter Short was fired because he failed at successfully defending the island of Oahu and was the U.S. military commander responsible for the defense of U.S. military installations in Hawaii at the time of the Japanese attack.

Why would he fire a man who's area of responsibility lay outside of Hawaii in place of the man charged with defending Hawaii??

Because, arguably, he bungled in the Phillipines as badly as Short did on Oahu, and with far less excuse.

Matthew Craw said:

Because, arguably, he bungled in the Phillipines as badly as Short did on Oahu, and with far less excuse.

Click to expand...

Yes, he could have, theoretically, been fired. But...

1) Consider that there were no readily available replacements with his level of skill. Let's face it: yes, he bungled the defense of the Phillipines, but, when on the offensive, which the US would be on in a few months, there weren't too many better in the Pacific Theater than MacArthur.

2) Consider his level of experience. He was, in all likelihood, the only Army commander available in the Pacific to fill his position which had actually led a division+ sized force into combat.

3) Consider his experience in the Phillipines. Hell, the man was practically raised in the Phillipines. I doubt too many Filipinos would have trusted many other commanders.

4) Many in the Army considered the Phillipines a lost cause, anyhow. Although, I'm sure a more effective defense could have occured.

5) It's very demoralizing to have your commander replaced while you're in combat. Despite the fact that many soldiers in the Pacific did not like "Dugout Doug," it's not good for morale to import a fresh, comparitavely green commander.

The bottom line is that there was no one in the Pacific Theater, within the United States Army, with the qualifications, experience, and record of Douglas MacArthur.

I believe the Army Air Corps in the Philipines did send out one large mission hours prior to the Japanese hitting the B-17s, in response to reports of Japanese ships, then returned without finding them and soon after the Japanese arrived. Does anyone know if MacArthur had even one radar set in the Philipines?

A few points:

At Pearl Harbor we lost over 300 planes and 8 battleships, the Philipines cost us 18 B-17s, so the loss was not remotely comparable.

Pearl Harbor had a radar net, do not know if the Philipines had any.

Pearl Harbor ignored direct orders to take precautions and even went so far as to ignore massive warning signs in the last 8-10 hours before the attack. No such at Philipines.

MacArthur was already a distinguished general, with extremly close ties to the Philipine leadership. No idea if Short had any distinguished record.

An interesting side note: In addition to the B-17s lost that day, the other planes lost added to the aircraft that survived, would have been comparable in strength to the immediate Japanese forces, bearing in mind how useless B-17s would prove to be against enemy shipping. Would this have mattered, given that the Japanese could bring in new forces much more rapidly? And if Clark airfield had seen its planes dispersed in time, AND these planes were able to damage/delay the Japanese invaders, would this have been good for the US, or is it likely we would have lost anyway? Or would the need to reinforce the Philipines, especially after writing off Wake, have cost in men and material?

Hey guys, I agree that removing and courtmartialling Mac during the course of the Philippines campaign in early 1942 is pretty much a nonstarter for the reasons mentioned. As to your last post, grimm reaper, I believe that the USAAFFE assets which were wiped out by the Jap surprise attack on Clark Field- I must disagree with your figures, since 100+ US planes were destroyed on the ground for only 7 Jap attackers shot down- could've made a difference to the defence of the Philippines: with better airpower thru the P40s, P35s, P36s and B17s, which was better preserved thru Jap air attacks, the US forces could have made a better fight of it. Maybe the reinforcements initially bound for the Philippines, which OTL were diverted to Java and Australia- such as the 41st SUNSET Div, 52 Douglas A24 divebombers, 131st Arty Regt, and extra P40s- could've actually been sent to Macarthur had he better preserved and utilised his existing air assets ?

Melvin, actually the US assets in the Philipines, ON PAPER, were somewhat comparable to what the Japanese immediately deployed there, which is to say one of Japan's fleet carriers would have had a good chance against the entire air contingent in the Philipines. Even had they not been destroyed, and it was well under 100 planes lost, as we had barely 150 in total including a squadron of Philipine antiques, it would have required little effort for Japan to send a larger contingent in. Especially when the Philipine divisions broke and ran.

Also, once Admiral Stark wisely removed his hopelessly outclassed 'fleet' it was unlikely large scale reinforcements would have arrived.

interesting books

I have read several books on this subject, including the Army's official history of the campaign. Yes, Macarthur seems to have choked during the first day but conducted a good defense thereafter. The plan to withdraw into the Bataan Pen. was carried out, the major flaw was the destruction of much of the supplies that were supposed to have been taken there also. The idea was to defend there, thus protecting Manila Bay from Japanese use, for up to 6 months or until reinforcements arrived. One of the books(can't remember the name, but something like 'doomed from the start') deals with the Air Corps there just prior to and during the campaign. (yes there was at least 1 radar set, which detected several high flying night intrusions pre-Dec. 7). The odd thing about this is that the defence was almost carried out according to pre-war planning; it was the weakness of the fleet which caused the NCA to determine that the Phil's should be written off until some future time. Another thing is the Japanese forces used there were not that much better eq. than the U.S., and the Jap. commander was constantly berated by higher HQ for not accomplishing the mission within the alloted timeframe. If all the supplies had been removed to the pen., especially the med supplies, the outcome would possibly have been much different.

Walter Kaufman states Mac was the only person qualified to lead US forces in the Pacific. Thats not entirely true. The number 2 guy in the Phillipines LTG Jonathan Wainwright may have been able to do the job too. He spent most of his career in Asia (Phillipines in particular), had combat experience (France 1918), and was top of his class at West Point.

OTL MacArthur was ordered out of the Phillipines. Wainwright took overall command and capably fought a rearguard action that ended at Bataan. He spent the remainder of the war as a POW. After the war, he was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his exploits in the Phillipines. What if Wainwright was called back and Mac went out in a blaze of glory?

Phillipino Resistance

I think the most successful military unit in the Phillipines was commanded by a civilian mining engineer. It's been too long since I read a history of the war.

Mike, actually that was a major blunder on MacArthur's part. Wainwright should never have been given the position of commander of all forces in the Philipines. It was obvious he was not escaping, and unless it was known he would commit suicide, he should have been given command over only Bataan and Corregidor. Once captured, the Japanese were able to force him to surrender ALL forces in the Philipines, when more than 15,000 American and Philipinos in Mindanao and other southern islands might have tied down the Japanese for more time.