WI the Spanish Civil War in 1934

E. Burke · Jan 6, 2015

What would it have taken for the anti CEDA revolt of 1934 to become a full blown revolution. I feel like this would have been a very different situation. For one thing the Left would have been fighting the republican government, so the war and revolution would have been inseparable. It also seems like the left was more unified around this strike than in the civil war. Almost all the left was in an alliance I believe. Also this would have been during the end of the Third Period so the Communists wouldn't have had the ability to lead a bourgeois Popular Front. It would have been capitalism vs the working class no class alliances.

E. Burke · Jan 6, 2015

Bump bump bump

Rich Rostrom · Jan 7, 2015

E. Burke said:
What would it have taken for the anti CEDA revolt of 1934 to become a full blown revolution. I feel like this would have been a very different situation. For one thing the Left would have been fighting the republican government, so the war and revolution would have been inseparable. It also seems like the left was more unified around this strike than in the civil war. Almost all the left was in an alliance I believe. Also this would have been during the end of the Third Period so the Communists wouldn't have had the ability to lead a bourgeois Popular Front. It would have been capitalism vs the working class no class alliances.

The Republican Left would not have supported the rebellion.

No part of the army would support the rebellion.

The anarchosyndicalists wouldn't support the rebellion; at most, some of them would join in if it became a real force. But it would never get that far. (Whereas in 1936, with the Left controlling the Spanish state, it was easy for the FAI and CNT to form battalions to fight against the rebels.)

So even a much stronger effort by the Socialists would just end in defeat. That bigger effort would merely and get all of the Socialist leaders killed, imprisoned, or exiled, and discredit them completely - even Azaña would have to recognize the anti-Republican nature of the Red left.

E. Burke · Jan 7, 2015

Rich Rostrom said:
The Republican Left would not have supported the rebellion.

No part of the army would support the rebellion.

The anarchosyndicalists wouldn't support the rebellion; at most, some of them would join in if it became a real force. But it would never get that far. (Whereas in 1936, with the Left controlling the Spanish state, it was easy for the FAI and CNT to form battalions to fight against the rebels.)

So even a much stronger effort by the Socialists would just end in defeat. That bigger effort would merely and get all of the Socialist leaders killed, imprisoned, or exiled, and discredit them completely - even Azaña would have to recognize the anti-Republican nature of the Red left.

The Left's biggest mistake in 36 was not liquidating the bourgeoise state. It allowed the communist party to take power and destroy the revolution. What if the CNT took power in Spain after they put down the uprising?

mrmandias · Jan 7, 2015

RR is right. Even if you get a widespread revolt with even the anarchosyndicalists involved, and maybe even some support from nationalist separatist movements, on the other side you will basically have all the forces that supported the Nationalists OTL plus the Spanish state and all the centrist groups and classes that supported the state. Result: bloody suppression of the rebellion.

E. Burke · Jan 7, 2015

What if the CNT took power in Catalonia in 36? They were offered power, they turned it down.

Colin · Jan 7, 2015

To go back to your original question, the situation in 1934 was not as polarised, the imprisonment of those who revolted in 1934 and the repression in Asturias played a strong part in the radicalisation of the left and the polarisation of the situation in Spain by 1936.

Personally I think it is misleading to assume that if the left had somehow been truer to its principles that it would have swept all before it either in 1934 or in 1936. Also the question of the anarchy syndicalists taking power in 1936 was irrelevant to them, they felt they had the power and the question made no sense. once as anarchists you take power you accept the state in some form or another.

E. Burke · Jan 7, 2015

Colin said:
To go back to your original question, the situation in 1934 was not as polarised, the imprisonment of those who revolted in 1934 and the repression in Asturias played a strong part in the radicalisation of the left and the polarisation of the situation in Spain by 1936.

Personally I think it is misleading to assume that if the left had somehow been truer to its principles that it would have swept all before it either in 1934 or in 1936. Also the question of the anarchy syndicalists taking power in 1936 was irrelevant to them, they felt they had the power and the question made no sense. once as anarchists you take power you accept the state in some form or another.

They didn't take power in 36, but they ended up running a state anyway. They had power in the streets in 36, and the Catalan president offered them all power. They didn't take it. The CNT constitution said they had to take power.