WI The Imperial Regiment of Foot guards

[flasheart]

The British Army's regiments of Foot guards are perhaps the most famous military units in the world. Instantly identifiable by their red tunics and bearskin hats the five regiments of guards are famous for both for their ceremonial roles in London and for their legendary battlefield successes and are easily one of the most recognisable and enduring symbols of the United Kingdom.

Following the First World War there were some proposals to form a sixth regiment of foot guards to be known as The Imperial Regiment of Foot Guards to be formed from men recruited from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and other parts of the British Empire.
The regiment was to have worn a red, white and blue plume in their bearskins and have had the motto "For Crown and Empire".
The idea of creating a new Foot Guards regiment was quite current at the time with the Welsh Guards having been only recently formed in 1915 and the Irish Guards in 1900 from a core of Welsh and Irish personnel drawn from the existing Grenadier, Coldstream and Scots guards regiments.

Ultimately nothing became of the idea but what if the Imperial Regiment of Foot guards had become a reality and formed the British Army's sixth foot guards regiment?

Where might such a regiment have served?

Would the proposal of the regiments members being drawn from the Empire and presumably later the Commonwealth have actually been practical and what would the effect of these nations gaining independence have been?

Would the regiment still exist today?

 

[flasheart]

 

[ArtosStark]

Would the proposal of the regiments members being drawn from the Empire and presumably later the Commonwealth have actually been practical and what would the effect of these nations gaining independence have been?

If the sequence of independence is largely the same as OTL then the regiment would likely die out after WW2 and would, at times, struggle with keeping up numbers before that. You would, I think, need a more integrated military system to make it viable in the long term.

As it was, it’s probably possible to pick up enough men immediately after WW1 who want to stay in uniform as their nations strip their militaries back down (This would be particularly true in Canada). However, keeping new recruits flowing would probably require a formal agreement of some kind with the Dominions eventually. Having Dominion personnel serving a ceremonial purpose in the British Army wouldn’t be a big deal. But having them deployed in combat in furtherance of British interests will likely be uncomfortable for Dominions by the Suez crisis at latest.

In Canada, Mackenzie King would probably try and limit the flow of Canadians to such a regiment but is not too likely to make it a central policy issue or anything. St. Laurent would probably look to end the practice though.

 

[flasheart]

If the sequence of independence is largely the same as OTL then the regiment would likely die out after WW2 and would, at times, struggle with keeping up numbers before that. You would, I think, need a more integrated military system to make it viable in the long term.

The OTL British Army contains a not insignificant number of personnel recruited from across the commonwealth (about 5% of current strength not including the Brigade of Gurkhas) serving across most arms and regiments.
Could a guards regiment intentionally drawn from foreign nationals have potentially become a sort of British Foreign Legion type organisation and snatched up most commonwealth personnel?

 

[sdgottsch]

I remember seeing the Coldstream Guards in Ypres in late-2019 at Menin Gate for a solemn remembrance of fallen brothers.

 

[jlckansas]

The Gurkas have stood guard in place of one of the Regiments. You could very easily move them up, given their record, and have them have a ceremonial Guards unit stationed in London. Other units might be to have a Unit or two from India, Sikhs would be a good example in that you could move a Bn. from India for a couple of years then, when their replacement unit shows up and after their training, go back on regular service.

 

[ArtosStark]

The OTL British Army contains a not insignificant number of personnel recruited from across the commonwealth (about 5% of current strength not including the Brigade of Gurkhas) serving across most arms and regiments.

Sure. But my understanding is that most come from outside those nations originally known as “Dominions”. Though perhaps there are more than I realize. Nonetheless Fiji, Ghana, Jamaica, and St. Vincent are, IIUC, the main contributors.

 

[CalBear]

In WW II they would fit perfectly into the Commonwealth commitments. Likely they would be in North Africa, Sicily, Italy and Northern France.

Post war the formation would almost certainly be sunset.

 

[Some Bloke]

Imperial Guard?
How's this for the regimental march?

 

[David Flin]

for their legendary battlefield successes

Cough.

 

[flasheart]

Cough.

Edit: For their battlefield participation awards

 

[flasheart]

While as a few have pointed out the Regiment might have struggled to survive past WW2 (unless they were to dramatically change their recruitment criteria) its worth pointing out that this would be a Guards Regiment as opposed to just another line infantry unit.

Something the Guards are somewhat notorious for is the fact that unlike most other Regiments in the British Army the Guards always survive the regular rounds of defence cuts, disbandments and forced unit amalgamations that the rest of the army suffers.
The closest the Guards units have ever come to this was an amalgamation of the Household Cavalry units into a single Regiment which still saw the individual units able to retain their own distinctive identies.

The enduring survival of Guards units is down to a combined of factors but most notably the prestige and cultural significance of such units making it politically difficult to do anything to them and the fact that the Brigade of Guards often benefit from "Top cover" from former Guards officers found within the higher ranks of the British military and establishment.

It's entirely possible that the Imperial Regiment of Guards may also survive until the present day owing to these factors.
As others have pointed out the big difficulty post WW2 would be in recruitment if they were to stick to the principle of empire/commonwealth personnel.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

The issue is that the 'political cover' of the other Guards regiments has a rational basis - the old regiment, family ties and all that. A new regiment specifically recruited from outside of Britain wouldn't have that from the beginning and would be the most junior of the bunch without a firm home or coherent identity. It takes perhaps 2-3 generations for a firm sense of 'top cover' to be established.

As others have said, the Dominions were getting to that restless teenage phase where they were figuratively itching to move out into their own doss house and
'find themselves' whilst listening to dangerous new rebellious music like George Formby, not join a Morris dancing troupe with their dad. They aren't a firm basis to build upon. The non-white colonies would be out of the question in the thinking of the time.

The big difficulty isn't perpetuating them through to the 2020s, but getting the idea off the ground at all. In the early 1920s, there wasn't the money, political will, interest or need for any further Guards regiments (which did cost a bit more than a ordinary infantry battalion, albeit not as much as in the past). The priority, as you point out, was retaining what Guards regiments there were. The whole of the infantry was shrinking as the post WW1 force reductions and cuts came into play, as well as being spread more thinly with the loss of the Southern Irish regiments. Without a coherent argument to counter this rather baleful set of circumstances, the proposal is not concrete.

 

[David Flin]

While as a few have pointed out the Regiment might have struggled to survive past WW2 (unless they were to dramatically change their recruitment criteria) its worth pointing out that this would be a Guards Regiment as opposed to just another line infantry unit.

If we assume that this extra Guards unit is created and maintained, then there are a number of consequences post WW2 and certainly post National Service.

We can also assume that Defence Cuts would keep coming in at the rate that they did historically, and that the Top Echelons of the British Military Establishment (Army, winning fights against Navy and the Crabfats) protect these Guard units above all else, I can see the following consequences.

Firstly, proper infantry units would be sacrificed. This has consequences for overstretch: post WW2, and certainly post 1970, the British armed forces have faced horrible levels of overstretch, with too many commitments and not enough suitable units to carry out these commitments. This has exacerbated that situation; deploying Guard units to such commitments was basically a rarity between Korea and Gulf War 1. Not for nothing did the Guard regiments become known as the OAPs (Overseas at Purbright. Purbright, in Surrey, where Guard units had their main training base, was as far abroad as most Guardsmen ever got. Meanwhile, proper infantry units went from one overseas commitment to another with barely a moment to catch their breath).

This will increase the pressure on the units doing the actual work. Which will also increase resentment within the armed forces against the Guard Regiment (already disliked by Proper Infantry) and will damage morale and retention.

Taking examples I am familiar with, I can say quite firmly and confidently that, between the late 1950s and the early 1980s, the Guard Regiments were rubbish as actual soldiers. In the Falklands, the Scots Guards were aware of their lack of training and preparation, and took some steps to try and mitigate against this. The Welsh Guards were just as unprepared, but had an almost SAS-like ability to assume that because they were Guards, they were somehow elite, and didn't listen to people with actual experience.*

But we have predicated our assumptions here on this Imperial Guard regiment being protected by The Powers That Be. I'll leave it to those who have moved in the circles of the Powers That Be to decide how likely or otherwise that assumption is. If, however, it happens and remains, then nothing good will come to the British Army. Yet another group of parasites sucking the life blood away from the units that mattered.





* Anecdote alert. Prior to the attack on Mt Harriet, a detachment of Welsh Guards were supposedly protecting the start line. When we got there, we found them having a brew-up with an open fire in plain sight of the outlying Argentine positions, and dismissed the concerns of the Marines about to make the assault that this had not been a wise decision (I translate loosely the gist of a rather heated discussion between a Marine officer who shall remain nameless to protect the innocent, and the Guards officer at the start line. I damn near shot the bastard). They simply didn't understand why this was a problem.

* Anecdote alert. During the Troubles, Guards units were - very occasionally - deployed to Northern Ireland. They were rubbish. They basically weren't trusted to patrol, being about as streetwise and competent on patrols as your average class of primary school children, so their deployments consisted entirely of Barrack Deployments, where they pretty much never left the barracks. Leaving other units to pick up the slack.

 

[flasheart]

The big difficulty isn't perpetuating them through to the 2020s, but getting the idea off the ground at all. In the early 1920s, there wasn't the money, political will, interest or need for any further Guards regiments (which did cost a bit more than a ordinary infantry battalion, albeit not as much as in the past). The priority, as you point out, was retaining what Guards regiments there were. The whole of the infantry was shrinking as the post WW1 force reductions and cuts came into play, as well as being spread more thinly with the loss of the Southern Irish regiments. Without a coherent argument to counter this rather baleful set of circumstances, the proposal is not concrete.

As you say post war with a shrinking army there was no requirement for new Guards units (which likely prevented through proposal for a new guards unit getting off the ground IOTL).

However suppose the Regiment is formed at some point during the war as the Welsh Guards were in 1915 (and previously the Irish Guards in 1900 during the Boer War).
Is it more likely that an existing new guards regiment ideally with a respectable war record would survive in the post war period and the 1922 reorganisation (which saw many units amalgamated or disbanded)?

Would the proposal of a guards regiment made up of personnel drawn from across the empire or such individuals residing in the UK have been more realistic and attractive during the war years?

 

[Eaglenine2]

So a regular infantry counterpart to King Edward's Horse?

 

[yulzari1]

Perhaps we could cut the Gordian knot by postulating that said ‘Imperial Guards’ be a ceremonial regiment with rotating companies from across the Empire. Their home armies get a regular outing on a world level stage whilst only going short of a company. Which may actually, in some cases, come back better trained than otherwise. The Empire gets a public face.

Meanwhile the Woodentops have to go out and earn a living as line infantry, easing the overstretch issue. Non British Army units have covered the ceremonial tasks from time to time. The Gurkhas and Kiwis have mounted guards for example and even the Rock Apes and the RCMP have done certain duties. It can do no harm to the Dominions and Territories to have their day in the sun from time to time. Imperial Guards could be a tricky title once the Empire no longer has a King Emperor. Commonwealth Guards might be a safer title.

Would it be better to have a standard uniform for the Regiment or allow each national country to bring their own along with them?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

As you say post war with a shrinking army there was no requirement for new Guards units (which likely prevented through proposal for a new guards unit getting off the ground IOTL).

However suppose the Regiment is formed at some point during the war as the Welsh Guards were in 1915 (and previously the Irish Guards in 1900 during the Boer War).
Is it more likely that an existing new guards regiment ideally with a respectable war record would survive in the post war period and the 1922 reorganisation (which saw many units amalgamated or disbanded)?

Would the proposal of a guards regiment made up of personnel drawn from across the empire or such individuals residing in the UK have been more realistic and attractive during the war years?

Let's go back to the very first hurdle - what proposal? There is no record of it in the go to histories of the British Army in the Great War that I'm aware of, nor have I come across it in 15 years of examining the very niche topic of additional British guards regiments (Truly, I have wasted my life). What's the source on this? The name of an Imperial Regiment of Foot Guards leads to this topic, not to any other tell tale indications. I'm interested.

Further from there, you are correct that there was no requirement for additional Guards regiments; heck, no requirement for additional Guards battalions.

I can't see it being founded during the Great War, as this was the time when the Dominions had their own large armies and were flat out supplying the men for them. Canada and Australia went through all types of internal discombobulations just to sustain the AIF and CEF, including very bitter struggles over the disbanding of units. That doesn't suggest a great pool of potential manpower. (It is also salient to note that neither of these forces utilised their prewar units in their mobilised field forces, but had all new battalions with lineage of their own)

However, if we suspend disbelief for the purposes of the scenario, whilst also loading the scales with a truckload of thumbs to create the contrivance, then they will literally be the first neck on the chopping block. Unlike any of the non-Guards infantry regiments, they have no real heritage or political power, nor do they represent an area within Britain that votes. Unlike the other Guards regiments, they aren't really 'Guards quality' in the social sense, being a hostilities only exigency. They are without a home, without cachet, without a role, without a purpose and surplus to requirements. That doesn't make them suitable for the British Army - they would be perfect for Parliament!

On your last point, where as Eaglenine2 says you propose a King Edward's Horse 2: This Time We're Foot Guards, it isn't viable in the Great War and especially not afterwards.

There is a time for additional Guards Regiments, and in a way, you refer to it. During the South African War/Second Boer War, there is sufficient need for manpower plus jingoism plus budgets plus a very different socio-political climate. It is an era that gave us the Irish Guards and, truth be told, an earlier establishment of the Welsh Guards would pass muster very easily. An Empire-spanning unit at that time could piggyback on the successes of the colonial forces in South Africa, although a better argument can be made for a broader English regiment, perhaps under the name 'Royal Regiment of Foot Guards', but the big issue would be working out a way for it to survive the Campbell-Bannerman Retrenchment years.

 

[Eaglenine2]

Or the a foreign unit provides the King's Guard they become honorary members of Imperial/ Commonwealth Foot Guard?

​

 

[Simon Darkshade]

That was always a Guards battalion in the time in question. The use of British non-Guards battalions for public duties wasn't really a thing until ~1996, or during the post Cold War peace dividend. The RAF had done it once a year or so since 1943, but this is well off into the future and certainly not 'written'. The Gurkhas started in the early 1970s, whilst the Royal Marines started in 1978 and the Home Guard did stints in 1941 and 1943.

For non British units, we have a Canadian battalion in 1916 and another in 1940. Excluding the Coronation Contingents, we need to leap forward to 1964 for the Kiwis. I would suggest that the incidence of this points towards a conclusion that their use was more of a function of the drifting evolution of the former Empire + the ever-continuous reduction of the strength of the British Army from 1945 onwards than any one of preference. An honourary Commonwealth unit would therefore be quite a pointless idea before it was necessary and no reason to justify decisions several decades earlier.

Rather than worry about their retirement plan, I would argue that their very conception is more of the issue to confront.