WI: The first black president was a Republican?

Even if you assume that the popularity is nearly equal, Eisenhower also had the benefit of an running against a party who had been in power for 20 years, with the nation bogged down in war, and whose incumbent President, who declined to run, was as popular as George W. Bush in 2008. In 1996, Powell will be running against peace & prosperity, and the first Democratic President since the 1970s.

I was kind of exaggerating for effect.

But...

If Powell had run and won, people in the future would be going,

"But so and so wasn't the first black president who was running against someone who had multiple affairs and scandals, and had appointed his wife to policy making positions without any congressional approval and X and Y and Z, and ect. ect. ect."
 
Certainly an interesting take for a discussion on an Alternate History site.

I'm not sure how you mean that. If you mean I'm closing a door that shouldn't be closed given the multiverse of possibilities, then I disagree. This is based on a person's personal nature; who they are and what they think. You can't just ask "what if they did it?" without also asking in the first place "would they do it?". Powell has said he did not want to run, not because his wife told him she wouldn't stand for it (as is the traditional story and basis of most what ifs for President Powell) but because Powell himself did not want to run for president. That is his nature and who he is as a person.
If you want a situation where there's a bunch of terrorist attacks rearranging American politics and killing and raising up leaders, or there's a world wide Zombie war or something and you get Powell to the presidency, feel free. But under normal circumstances, Powell has said he did not want to be president and that shows his nature as not wanting to be president. Not everyone wants to be President of the United States.

To change someone's personality and nature to fit something, without explanation or reason of a natural development of that person, is an ASB. There need to be buckets of cold water dumped on parts of a discussion where it just isn't going to happen and I dumped that bucket.
 
The first Black President could yet be a Republican. As of yet the United States has never had a Black President. We do have a Multiracial President, but frankly Im not even sure that Obama is the first American president to have mixed raced ethnicity.
 
The first Black President could yet be a Republican. As of yet the United States has never had a Black President. We do have a Multiracial President, but frankly Im not even sure that Obama is the first American president to have mixed raced ethnicity.

If Obama considers himself black, he's black. So, yes, we have had our first Black President.
 
I'm not sure how you mean that. If you mean I'm closing a door that shouldn't be closed given the multiverse of possibilities, then I disagree. This is based on a person's personal nature; who they are and what they think. You can't just ask "what if they did it?" without also asking in the first place "would they do it?". Powell has said he did not want to run, not because his wife told him she wouldn't stand for it (as is the traditional story and basis of most what ifs for President Powell) but because Powell himself did not want to run for president. That is his nature and who he is as a person.
If you want a situation where there's a bunch of terrorist attacks rearranging American politics and killing and raising up leaders, or there's a world wide Zombie war or something and you get Powell to the presidency, feel free. But under normal circumstances, Powell has said he did not want to be president and that shows his nature as not wanting to be president. Not everyone wants to be President of the United States.

To change someone's personality and nature to fit something, without explanation or reason of a natural development of that person, is an ASB. There need to be buckets of cold water dumped on parts of a discussion where it just isn't going to happen and I dumped that bucket.

Somewhat pertinent, do we know why Powell has no interest in the Presidency?
 
Somewhat pertinent, do we know why Powell has no interest in the Presidency?

There's various sources that claim his wife told him 'They' wouldn't let him. Whether it was a nutter with a rifle or a car accident orchestrated by someone, she (and then he) felt the time wasn't right for a black President, in that he'd get killed if he got too close.

On a backdrop of 1990s militia madness, it's a lot less paranoid than it sounds.
 
Wha? He was a socialist, for God's sake! Not a card-carrying Socialist, but a socialist who believed in equality.

That's not what a socialist is, and I say that as a socialist who believes in equality (and the rest of the socialist platform too).

The political creed you have chosen to 'like' does not have a monopoly on equality.

Note that I'm not saying he necessarily wasn't a socialist - I've read elsewhere that he did have radical social views beyond the position of racial equality (as depressing as it is to think that that was once radical!) but unless he was in favour of workers' control of the means of production, distribution and exchange (and there are various methods by which this can be achieved), just being 'pro-equality' doesn't make him a socialist.
 
WI Republicans had become the more progressive of the 2 parties, Hughes wins 1916, Republicans get blaime for WW1, conservative dems in white house 1921-33, Progressive Republican new deal (without having the Southern Democrats to cope with)
 
The first Black President could yet be a Republican. As of yet the United States has never had a Black President. We do have a Multiracial President, but frankly Im not even sure that Obama is the first American president to have mixed raced ethnicity.
Colin Powell has Scottish ancestry, too, so he's out. And so too alt-President Martin Luther King, who had Irish ancestry. Assuming an ASB triumphant Equal Rights ticket in 1872 and the death of Victoria Woodhull, Douglass likely wouldn't be, either - he was told as a child his master fathered him. You start excluding a whole lot of black people from their identity with these kind of criteria.
 
The first Black President could yet be a Republican. As of yet the United States has never had a Black President. We do have a Multiracial President, but frankly Im not even sure that Obama is the first American president to have mixed raced ethnicity.

Race in actuality is a horsesh*t thing, but in the social context, which is this topic's context: If you look African American (tone doesn't matter; features do) and they treat you like an African American, you're African American. And that's actually why I don't prefer the term African American compared to the term Black.

This whole "well, Obama is mixed thing" is a way to wiggle out of him being the first black president. He was spoken of in the media as the black candidate running for the nomination, until he got closer to election and then elected. Then he became "mixed". I'm not sure the reason for doing that wiggling, but it's there.
 
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There's various sources that claim his wife told him 'They' wouldn't let him. Whether it was a nutter with a rifle or a car accident orchestrated by someone, she (and then he) felt the time wasn't right for a black President, in that he'd get killed if he got too close.

On a backdrop of 1990s militia madness, it's a lot less paranoid than it sounds.

I think it is more likely that he did not want to engage in electoral politics. He had no experience in politics. As Chair of the Joint Chiefs and National Security Advisor, he did not have to suffer fools. He would if he ran for president.
 
If Obama considers himself black, he's black. So, yes, we have had our first Black President.

That would be true, except that Barack Obama is officially recognized as both Black and White. Now I find such a thing ridiculous, since its clear that Barack Obama is Biracial, or to use a term that has long since lost its relevance, Mulatto.

This whole "well, Obama is mixed thing" is a way to wiggle out of him being the first black president. He was the black man running for the nomination, until he got closer to election and then elected. Then he became "mixed". I'm not sure the reason for doing that wiggling, but it's there.

I don't get what you're saying. Obama was always mixed. He's half Black and Half White. Actually, in a more technical sense he is indeed African-American, since his father was Kenyan, and mother was Kansan. Either way, what Im trying to say, is that when we elect someone who identifies solely as an African-American with two parents who are both black, then we will have our first Black President.
 
That would be true, except that Barack Obama is officially recognized as both Black and White. Now I find such a thing ridiculous, since its clear that Barack Obama is Biracial, or to use a term that has long since lost its relevance, Mulatto.



I don't get what you're saying. Obama was always mixed. He's half Black and Half White. Actually, in a more technical sense he is indeed African-American, since his father was Kenyan, and mother was Kansan. Either way, what Im trying to say, is that when we elect someone who identifies solely as an African-American with two parents who are both black, then we will have our first Black President.

Obama's mother has some black ancestry. Does that qualify him?

This whole argument is why I think talking about race is pointless.
 

Japhy

Banned
To change someone's personality and nature to fit something, without explanation or reason of a natural development of that person, is an ASB. There need to be buckets of cold water dumped on parts of a discussion where it just isn't going to happen and I dumped that bucket.

Personality is merely the result of experience, shockingly if Powell lives his life in different circumstances and experiences different events he'll be a different person. Denying that, that everyone is simply made of stone to be fit in as you pleased is far more ASB.

But then this whole thing really seems to be you just being ideologically upset at the discussion here.
 
Personality is merely the result of experience, shockingly if Powell lives his life in different circumstances and experiences different events he'll be a different person. Denying that, that everyone is simply made of stone to be fit in as you pleased is far more ASB.

A person is who they are. The personality formalizes around two years old or so: everything after that is variations on it and evolutions of it, but the template remains what it is. Colin Powell has said himself he is too disinterested in politics when it came to the issue of running for president, which is a strong hint that his personality and just who he is wouldn't have him run for president.

If you have a completely different life, then ok, but let's be honest here. What you guys want isn't *Colin Powell, it's Colin Powell. You don't want a different person with the same name and body, you want that person we know as Colin Powell. But that person said he didn't want to be president, and it doesn't seem like the reasons for that are something you can change with being inspired by some political speaker or something. It'd have to be something early and big, but that means he's a different person. Something key to discussing alternate history is to realize things that weren't going to happen on the plain reality of things, despite wanting them to happen or thinking they could happen, and accept that the facts and the way things are don't jive with them. Otherwise, you're just doing wish fulfillment. Another important thing to learn for an alternate history discussion is that not everyone, and in fact only a limited number of people, care to hold elected office or different elected offices. Not every Congressman wants to be a Senator, not every Mayor wants to be a Governor and not every one of those other offices wants to be president.
Those are two things I've come to understand in my time on AH.com and looking over alternate history stuff.

You could have some extraordinary or odd or specifically precise set of circumstances occur to make him president or push him to it. You could also use those to get Chevy Chase to be President. But under normal circumstances it's just not in the cards.

Now, if he came out later and revealed something like "Well, I might have" or something like that, then that would indicate him as being different than the statements have made him seem and that would open up the prospect that yes, he could have because that would mean as a person he was open to doing it. On the evidence there is, though, I cannot conclude anything but Colin Powell did not want to be the president of the United States.

But then this whole thing really seems to be you just being ideologically upset at the discussion here.
I don't know what exactly you mean (which should go along with an indicator that it is wrong in the ways that I assume it may mean), but I'm not ideologically upset, and shame on you for saying so because I know it's meant as an insult wrapped in intellectual trappings and it is also meant as a dismissive of everything I said.
 
That would be true, except that Barack Obama is officially recognized as both Black and White. Now I find such a thing ridiculous, since its clear that Barack Obama is Biracial, or to use a term that has long since lost its relevance, Mulatto.

Obama is biracial and black. He chooses to be black and identifies with that background - so, he's both the first black president we've ever had and the first biracial president we've ever had. Let's get real, if you want to use the most literal definition of black/white/whatever, it's probably impossible to ever have the first 'Black President' since many western blacks have some white ancestry in their bloodline - whether in America or Jamaica or other areas.

So, I'm guessing if you go back far enough in Powell's family line, you'd find at least one white ancestor.

Conversely, there are whites who have some black ancestry in them, as well.

So, yeah, it does come back to what you identify with. Obama looks and identifies with his black roots and that's good enough for me to consider him the first Black President.
 
If Obama considers himself black, he's black. So, yes, we have had our first Black President.

If consideration is all that matters, wouldn't Bill Clinton be our first black President :p?

In anycase, prior to Obama, I'd have bet money the first black President would be a Republican - not just Powell, but Condi Rice, and most often ignored, JC Watts.

Watts is the one I'd love to see talked about - give him the 2003 Oklahoima Senate Seat, and he'd predate Obama by a year being the first Black Senator since Edward Brookes. Given he's from the heartland, indisputably black, and a self-made man, he could give us the GOP version of Obamamania. Hell, I'm still wondering why the GOP hasn't put him in charge of minority outreach.
 
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