WI Star Trek gets Five Seasons

[John Fredrick Parker]

Assume the series is, if anything, better, and has a fulfilling finale. Yes, this very concept is explored in a perfectly good TL presently, but still -- I thought it would make an interesting discussion. Particularly in what, if anything, the Star Trek franchise does next, and when...

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Star Trek was fine quality-wise (at least till Season 3, and even then, that's over criticized). But the network didn't give it a chance; they didn't look at how great it was a demographics hit, and they weren't supportive enough, and finally gave it a death slot to just die off. What it needs is for the network to be more competent to understand it/the network coming across a way to make it more successful or doing something to make it more successful on accident.

If there are 5 season, btw, you could see the highly militant fanbase there was not arise in such a way; people loving the series, but not necessarily such a group to cosplay it and all, as we have in our timeline. Likewise, canon could be different since everything past season 3 is up for change. The Klingons could end up being from planet Quigglesploog, and be ruled by a God Emperor in a giant pyramid, or anything (and yes, I know the "Kitumba" script). And perhaps there will not be the films and spinoff series, and Star Trek will just be those 5 seasons.

 

[SergeantHeretic]

Star Trek was fine quality-wise (at least till Season 3, and even then, that's over criticized). But the network didn't give it a chance; they didn't look at how great it was a demographics hit, and they weren't supportive enough, and finally gave it a death slot to just die off. What it needs is for the network to be more competent to understand it/the network coming across a way to make it more successful or doing something to make it more successful on accident.

If there are 5 season, btw, you could see the highly militant fanbase there was not arise in such a way; people loving the series, but not necessarily such a group to cosplay it and all, as we have in our timeline. Likewise, canon could be different since everything past season 3 is up for change. The Klingons could end up being from planet Quigglesploog, and be ruled by a God Emperor in a giant pyramid, or anything (and yes, I know the "Kitumba" script). And perhaps there will not be the films and spinoff series, and Star Trek will just be those 5 seasons.

That is entirely possible. much of the reason for the rise of ST; TOS's rabid fans was the truncated OS. If the fans get their five seasons, there very well might not BE a modern Star Trek Quasi cult.

 

[Devolved]

Star Trek was fine quality-wise (at least till Season 3, and even then, that's over criticized). But the network didn't give it a chance; they didn't look at how great it was a demographics hit, and they weren't supportive enough, and finally gave it a death slot to just die off. What it needs is for the network to be more competent to understand it/the network coming across a way to make it more successful or doing something to make it more successful on accident.

If there are 5 season, btw, you could see the highly militant fanbase there was not arise in such a way; people loving the series, but not necessarily such a group to cosplay it and all, as we have in our timeline. Likewise, canon could be different since everything past season 3 is up for change. The Klingons could end up being from planet Quigglesploog, and be ruled by a God Emperor in a giant pyramid, or anything (and yes, I know the "Kitumba" script). And perhaps there will not be the films and spinoff series, and Star Trek will just be those 5 seasons.

William Shatner said that Star Trek wasn't all that successful until the re runs in the early 1970's. The series was lucky to get a third season. A season five would have been ASB.

 

[Glen]

Going for five seasons is quite doable - just leaving it in a viable timeslot would likely do that. I think the animated series gives us some idea what the last two seasons would look like in terms of story. A good finale is a bit harder since that was not en vogue for the most part but could happen.

As mentioned the series really took off in syndication and five seasons makes it more marketable as Brainbin has taught us sinceit can be stripped for six months runs. Therefore I think the fans arise almost like OTL. Movies and spin-offs are still likely since the show has name recognition, the fan base, and most of the players in bringing the show to the big screen and as a new seires are still around and other than the two more seasons I do not think you would necessarily see that much difference in this timeline.

 

[Garrison]

Honestly without that sense that the network was out to get the show and killed it off while it still had stories to tell I don't think you are going to get that rabid fanbase. I certainly don't think you are going to see any serious campaign to bring it back in the 70's but you might still see a movie made as studios hunt around for a Star Wars cash in(assuming that happens as OTL). If that film is as poor as the ST: TMP it might derail the whole franchise especially if you have a less vociferous fanbase who weren't willing to fork out for tickets just because it said Star Trek on the marquee.
A new show might have to wait on 60's nostalgia leading to a remake, and it would be a remake rather than a sequel like TNG.

 

[SergeantHeretic]

Honestly without that sense that the network was out to get the show and killed it off while it still had stories to tell I don't think you are going to get that rabid fanbase. I certainly don't think you are going to see any serious campaign to bring it back in the 70's but you might still see a movie made as studios hunt around for a Star Wars cash in(assuming that happens as OTL). If that film is as poor as the ST: TMP it might derail the whole franchise especially if you have a less vociferous fanbase who weren't willing to fork out for tickets just because it said Star Trek on the marquee.
A new show might have to wait on 60's nostalgia leading to a remake, and it would be a remake rather than a sequel like TNG.

Star Wars is going to get made, Lucas did it out of nostalgia for Saturday afternoon space Opera serieals, not because of Star Trek. and so Paramount WILL do an ST movie. If it sucks as bad as STTMP them yes, the remake reimagining will have to wait for the 80's or 90's.

 

[ColeMercury]

Plans for a Star Trek movie actually pre-date Star Wars by a number of years: the first proper work on it began in 1975. The movie was actually cancelled in order to make Phase II in 1977 (in response to the hype from Star Wars: the execs thought it would steal all their thunder & got cold feet) before being un-cancelled that same year (in response to the success of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which showed that there could be more than one science-fiction blockbuster in the world). If I may give a shameless plug, my TL "An Alternate Rise of the Blockbuster" explores in one update what could have happened if TMP hadn't been temporarily cancelled in 1977.

Anyway, back to the actual thread topic. Among other things, it's entirely possible that Leonard Nimoy would leave the show. By the end of it in OTL his relationship with Roddenberry et al had seriously deteriorated and it never really recovered.

 

[SergeantHeretic]

Plans for a Star Trek movie actually pre-date Star Wars by a number of years: the first proper work on it began in 1975. The movie was actually cancelled in order to make Phase II in 1977 (in response to the hype from Star Wars: the execs thought it would steal all their thunder & got cold feet) before being un-cancelled that same year (in response to the success of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which showed that there could be more than one science-fiction blockbuster in the world). If I may give a shameless plug, my TL "An Alternate Rise of the Blockbuster" explores in one update what could have happened if TMP hadn't been temporarily cancelled in 1977.

Anyway, back to the actual thread topic. Among other things, it's entirely possible that Leonard Nimoy would leave the show. By the end of it in OTL his relationship with Roddenberry et al had seriously deteriorated and it never really recovered.

If the full five years happens, I can seriously see an end of show finale that has Kirk's Entrprise docking at Starbase One, with pomp and fanfare, Job well done, hail fellow well met. This would give the fans the strong feeling that the story was over.

If NBC REALLY wanted to kill the show, THAT would be how to do it.

With two more seasons under its belt they may have gotten as strapped for stories as TNG got.

 

[Garrison]

If the full five years happens, I can seriously see an end of show finale that has Kirk's Entrprise docking at Starbase One, with pomp and fanfare, Job well done, hail fellow well met. This would give the fans the strong feeling that the story was over.

If NBC REALLY wanted to kill the show, THAT would be how to do it.

With two more seasons under its belt they may have gotten as strapped for stories as TNG got.

Since two more seasons would require a network that was more kindly disposed to the show I think that's quite likely, enough notice for the show to do a proper wrap up, and by season five the strain of finding stories, and amongst the cast and crew, would have made the end seem much more conclusive. As ColeMercury suggests there probably will be a ST: TMP but I suspect probably no 'Phase II' TV plan given the relatively more recent wrap up of TOS.
What the movie would be like is hard to say but I suspect the same issues would occur and it would be fairly similar, though perhaps this time the Xon character does take the place of Spock if Leonard Nimoy's disenchantment is greater than OTL.
As to a new TV series I suspect it will come later, with consequences for shows like Babylon 5 and maybe the X-Files as well as DS9 and Voyager obviously. As to the sort of show I think a prequel like Enterprise might be on the cards, or a 'reboot' along the lines of the 2009 movie, rather than a continuation of the story.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Since two more seasons would require a network that was more kindly disposed to the show I think that's quite likely, enough notice for the show to do a proper wrap up, and by season five the strain of finding stories, and amongst the cast and crew, would have made the end seem much more conclusive. As ColeMercury suggests there probably will be a ST: TMP but I suspect probably no 'Phase II' TV plan given the relatively more recent wrap up of TOS...

As to a new TV series I suspect it will come later, with consequences for shows like Babylon 5 and maybe the X-Files as well as DS9 and Voyager obviously. As to the sort of show I think a prequel like Enterprise might be on the cards, or a 'reboot' along the lines of the 2009 movie, rather than a continuation of the story.

Seems to be a rough consensus here; let's see if we can't tie down some dates. Assuming it takes Star Wars (or some version thereof) to get the studios excited about a ST movie, and that they're going with a prequel or a "reboot", then the next "phase" of Star Trek would come to be a part of the 1980's pop culture (the way original ST was part of the 1960's).

 

[Garrison]

Seems to be a rough consensus here; let's see if we can't tie down some dates. Assuming it takes Star Wars (or some version thereof) to get the studios excited about a ST movie, and that they're going with a prequel or a "reboot", then the next "phase" of Star Trek would come to be a part of the 1980's pop culture (the way original ST was part of the 1960's).

Well if it has to wait for a nostalgia reboot I think it might even be later than that. TNG came off the back of a series of moderately successful movies and a vociferous fan base who wanted more.

There are some things though that are going to be pressed on any new version and top of the list would be rebalancing the male to female ratio in the main characters. Not a problem with a prequel/continuation but if the network wants a nostalgic reboot then it's probably going to generate some complaining from the fanboys, rather like what happened when Starbuck and Boomer were recast as a woman for the BG reboot. Of course if this is happening in the 80s or early 90s they won't be able to organize an effective protest without the internet.

 

[Dan Reilly The Great]

One negative butterfly that I haven't heard mentioned is that if the original series completes a five year run and the fans are less fanatical than OTL, then you probably don't get all the conventions and other signs of support that played a big part in the ability of Lucas to get Star Wars greenlit. It is entirely possible that hollywood may not view science fiction as a viable maintstream phenomena, and thus high quality, big budget science fiction films and TV series may not show up as early as OTL or perhaps never at all.

Another possible change is that if the series completes its run and Phase II is canned, then the positive side effect is that they don't try to stretch a one hour TV pilot into a feature film length. So ST:TMP winds up actually being a good movie rather than a "leave the camera on" snorefest it wound up being IOTL. Perhaps we get a more action oriented film, maybe The Wrath of Khan comes early and sets the stage for the Star Trek film franchise being a true rival for Star Wars at the box office.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Would anything special need to happen to make the first STMP premiere in 1981, ten years after the initial Star Trek finale? Would Star Wars have to happen later?

 

[SergeantHeretic]

I think if Star Trek HAD gone the full five years/seasons, Shanter would so get on everyone else's nerves and Nimoy would get so dissenchanted that any reboot/movie/reimagining would have to be cone with all new actors. the "Shakespeare transformation, (That is to say, the roles being defined as classic roles playable by anyone, not just the original actors) would take place much sooner.

 

[Hyperion]

William Shatner said that Star Trek wasn't all that successful until the re runs in the early 1970's. The series was lucky to get a third season. A season five would have been ASB.

Five seasons, not impossible but it would be an uphill battle. Give it a decent time slot for season three, possibly see if season 2 could get a better than OTL timeslot as well, see a bit of a ratings boost over OTL, I think a fourth season wouldn't be impossible to pull off
Another thing that might be interesting if TOS does somewhat better ratings wise than OTL, we might get at least a season of Assignment Earth.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Assignment:_Earth_(episode)#Spinoff

Even if Star Trek gets the axe after season three, or even if ratings manage to tick up just a tad bit over OTL and a fourth season is greenlighted, Having an earlier spinoff going on after Star Trek, or even running concurrently for a season or two might be interesting, and Roddenberry did have some of his plots or ideas for Assignment Earth recycled into later works of his.

Even if TOS does a bit better ratings wise bit is still cut after season three, if Assignment Earth takes off for a couple of seasons, it might not be out of the question for one or two crossover episodes to be done down the line, even after TOS is over, the odd character making a cameo might not be out of the question. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened on TV.

One negative butterfly that I haven't heard mentioned is that if the original series completes a five year run and the fans are less fanatical than OTL, then you probably don't get all the conventions and other signs of support that played a big part in the ability of Lucas to get Star Wars greenlit. It is entirely possible that hollywood may not view science fiction as a viable maintstream phenomena, and thus high quality, big budget science fiction films and TV series may not show up as early as OTL or perhaps never at all.

Another possible change is that if the series completes its run and Phase II is canned, then the positive side effect is that they don't try to stretch a one hour TV pilot into a feature film length. So ST:TMP winds up actually being a good movie rather than a "leave the camera on" snorefest it wound up being IOTL. Perhaps we get a more action oriented film, maybe The Wrath of Khan comes early and sets the stage for the Star Trek film franchise being a true rival for Star Wars at the box office.

ST: TMP isn't the best movie wise, but, and this is just my personal opinion, plotwise I actually enjoyed reading the novelization a whole lot better.

That being said, visual effects wise and musical score wise, I thought those where the greatest things about ST: TMP. The movie even got nominated for three Oscars because of that.

Part of the final reason ST: TNG even got really going, from my understanding, was because ST: The Voyage Home made over $100 Million at the box office, and got four Oscar nominations.

 

[SergeantHeretic]

ST: TMP isn't the best movie wise, but, and this is just my personal opinion, plotwise I actually enjoyed reading the novelization a whole lot better.

That being said, visual effects wise and musical score wise, I thought those where the greatest things about ST: TMP. The movie even got nominated for three Oscars because of that.

Part of the final reason ST: TNG even got really going, from my understanding, was because ST: The Voyage Home made over $100 Million at the box office, and got four Oscar nominations.

Ehhh, I tought STTMP was just a steroided up remake of "The changling." I did not see it until it hit video anyway as I was like ten when it came out.

 

[Garrison]

ST: TMP isn't the best movie wise, but, and this is just my personal opinion, plotwise I actually enjoyed reading the novelization a whole lot better.

That being said, visual effects wise and musical score wise, I thought those where the greatest things about ST: TMP. The movie even got nominated for three Oscars because of that.

Part of the final reason ST: TNG even got really going, from my understanding, was because ST: The Voyage Home made over $100 Million at the box office, and got four Oscar nominations.

There was also the concern about one of the themes of that movie being true to life, that is the main cast were ageing and couldn't go on forever. There was also the fact that a TV series offered a regular flow of income over the once every couple of years influx the movies generated.

 

[Garrison]

I think if Star Trek HAD gone the full five years/seasons, Shanter would so get on everyone else's nerves and Nimoy would get so dissenchanted that any reboot/movie/reimagining would have to be cone with all new actors. the "Shakespeare transformation, (That is to say, the roles being defined as classic roles playable by anyone, not just the original actors) would take place much sooner.

Even more so if the 'reboot' version occurs later than TNG. If they go for the reimagining of the original I think the timing matters, a few years later and the tone might be much darker. I wonder what would happen if X-Files say did make it to air and was a hit before a new Star Trek series was in production...

 

[SergeantHeretic]

Even more so if the 'reboot' version occurs later than TNG. If they go for the reimagining of the original I think the timing matters, a few years later and the tone might be much darker. I wonder what would happen if X-Files say did make it to air and was a hit before a new Star Trek series was in production...

Then the reimagined "Sat Trek would be defined by dark stories about confrontations and conspirasies and intruige.