WI: Roman Canaries/Cape Verde?
- Thread starter Sulemain
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Possible yes, but Romans were not interested at all in settling the Macaronesian archipelagoes, as long as they did not offer anything interesting enough for them that could make the effort of settlement worthy.
Romans explored many peripheral areas of the Empire and theoretically could have settle/invaded some of them, but they rarely conquered anything by pure pleasure, it should have required a strategical/economical reason.
In the remote case that they could have settle there by chance, the impact would have been mostly irrelevant.
It is physically possible. The Canaries are only 100 km off Cape Juby. Roman navigation and seamanship could manage those distances no problem. But in OTL they didn't discover them for a reason...
Cape Juby is about 300km farther down the coast from where the Sahara begins. So even if Roman coasters ventured down the coast from Mauretania Tingitana (which I am sure the did), they may well have stopped well short of Cape Juby. The only reason the Portugese went farther in the 1400's was they were trying to get to India.
So for the Romans to find the Canaries they would need to have a reason to explore. Find a reasons for the Romans to explore south west from the Pillars of Hercules and that can be your POD.
Cape Juby is about 300km farther down the coast from where the Sahara begins. So even if Roman coasters ventured down the coast from Mauretania Tingitana (which I am sure the did), they may well have stopped well short of Cape Juby. The only reason the Portugese went farther in the 1400's was they were trying to get to India.
So for the Romans to find the Canaries they would need to have a reason to explore. Find a reasons for the Romans to explore south west from the Pillars of Hercules and that can be your POD.
Sorry but Romans did not only 'discover' the Canaries (they already knew their existence through Greek and Carthaginese explorers), they also traded with the Guanches living there.
In the Canaries archeologists have found a lot of coins and other Roman artifacts that Guanches acquired from them, and as long they did not sail, the only way they could get them is through Romans visiting the islands. The fact that Romans did not settle there does not mean that they went there (and often).
Cape Verde is another question. Romans may have known them but as long as they were unhabited and lacked of fresh water, they had zero interest in such places.
Could the Romans have ever theorised it was another route to India, like the Portuguese?
I'm not sure if the naval technology in Rome was adequate to navigate around Africa.
They probably would have preferred trading via the Suez.
GdwnsnHo
Banned
Wasn't there an expedition of the Phoenicians sponsored by the Pharaohs to circumnavigate Africa? Assuming this is true (it is disputed) then there are at least technologies/techniques among the Empires citizens, which is the important bit.
Seeking India is a bit of a bugger. Perhaps it is interesting to the Western Empire, if there is a cost-saving in sailing around India rather than a potentially silted up Pharaohs Canal.
Alternatively, they could do it as a prestige project. Screw a library, I want to have a map of the world. Get me 15 ships, five exceptional cartographers, and send them out. Eastern Voyage, South-Eastern Voyage, South Western Voyage, Northern Voyage, and a Western Voyage.
The SW and SE Voyages bump into each other and go "Oh, cool, we've gone half-way each, trade maps, and get more accurate sailing information regarding travelling the other way.
The East gets decent maps of India and China (maybe Japan)
The Western Expedition eventually goes "Oh heeeeeellllll no" as they can't find anywhere to rest - unless their captains are brave as all hell/luck out and hit the Azores.
The Northern Expedition explores the Baltic Sea, comes back and asks to go North West, and depending on the bank balance of the sponsor, or their ability to find another, go North West, risk being destroyed, but find Greenland, and maybe Newfoundland.
But honestly, you need a wealthy man, with one hell of an ego, who REALLY likes maps. An admiral might do, an Emperor in a golden age (rather than a crisis period - prevent the crisis, perhaps they have the cash), or an Phoenician trading cabal that really want to get on good terms with the Emperor.
Portuguese get interested on Atlantic archipelago, not because it was a road to Indias (this reason is practically absent before the late XVth century) but because it was close to las Minas, that is the Western African gold, and lands fit a plantation economy (sugar, but as well shells that could be used as trade exchange unit in Africa).
This is, Rome had its own gold mines everywhere in the Empire, and the trans-saharian trade with Rome was, while existing, really poor. The gold mines of Western Africa were much undevelloped, and without noticable partner before the Late Antiquity.
Not that Canarias were unknown to Romans : they knew where they were. It's just that it wasn't that interesting for them. You basically need to allow an earlier Western African take-off in order to make a Roman strong presence in Canarias likely.
There is little way to know how far the Romans explored out to, supposedly there is a Roman cargo ship found circa 1982 near Rio De Janiero that was literally buried in sand by the Brazilian navy with pottery matched to a kiln in modern Morocco. Hanno the Navigator of Carthage before Rome went at least to Senegal, perhaps as far as Angola. We also know that Egypt at least sponsored expeditions beyond Gibraltar to lengths unknown as yet.
Roman colonization of the Canaries is plausible, a survivor state could make an interesting timeline. We know that comparable Arabic and Indian vessels to those available to the 2nd-3rd century Romans can ply the ocean, if navigation permitted the only things lacking would be will, water, and supplies
Roman colonization of the Canaries is plausible, a survivor state could make an interesting timeline. We know that comparable Arabic and Indian vessels to those available to the 2nd-3rd century Romans can ply the ocean, if navigation permitted the only things lacking would be will, water, and supplies
The romans knew the Canarian Islands. But they have been not interested in it. They have been obviously convinced, that there was nothing at the West African Coast, they could not get from the East African Coast. And the infrastructure in East Africa together with arabian traders was already pretty well established.
Also no alternative route to India was needed, as long as the Red Sea was under roman control. Until the Persians tried to conquer Yemen in late 6th century. But the Parthians or Persians never exploited or blocked the trade routes to the East too much anyways. Actually blocked trade routes to the East would have been very beneficial to the roman currency and the very lousy foreign trade balance of the empire.
Also no alternative route to India was needed, as long as the Red Sea was under roman control. Until the Persians tried to conquer Yemen in late 6th century. But the Parthians or Persians never exploited or blocked the trade routes to the East too much anyways. Actually blocked trade routes to the East would have been very beneficial to the roman currency and the very lousy foreign trade balance of the empire.
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