WI: No Maria Theresa...

[Rum Medeniyeti]

... or any other child of Charles for that matter?

1.So, WI ALL the children of Emperor Charles VI of HRE died without children before his own death? What happens when the emperor dies? What are the larger geopolitical implications (starting with the situation in OTL).

2.I am exploring the possibility of this happening (the end of the Habsburgs) in a TL where OTL's Ottoman Hungary is hold by a very assertive resurgent Byzantine Empire. Also Prussia is much more powerful due to Poland never uniting with Lithuania and becoming the Commonwealth. If you could contribute thoughts on what would happen in this situation too, I'd be grateful.

 

[ingemann]

... or any other child of Charles for that matter?

1.So, WI ALL the children of Emperor Charles VI of HRE died without children before his own death? What happens when the emperor dies? What are the larger geopolitical implications (starting with the situation in OTL).

2.I am exploring the possibility of this happening (the end of the Habsburgs) in a TL where OTL's Ottoman Hungary is hold by a very assertive resurgent Byzantine Empire. Also Prussia is much more powerful due to Poland never uniting with Lithuania and becoming the Commonwealth. If you could contribute thoughts on what would happen in this situation too, I'd be grateful.

Well the Saxon Wettins had the best claim, while Bavarian Wittelbach had the second best claim. After them Portugal and Lorraine (in that order). So it will likely turn into a conflict between Saxony and Bavaria, with different states taking different sides.

As for the Habsburg possessions, I expect Bohemia, Austria and Hungary to prefer the Wettins, while Tyrol, Habsburg Swabia, the Austrian Netherlands and the Italian possesions to prefer Wittelbach, while Croatia will prefer Wittelbach they will most likely join the pro-Saxon side.

 

[Simreeve]

2.I am exploring the possibility of this happening (the end of the Habsburgs) in a TL where OTL's Ottoman Hungary is hold by a very assertive resurgent Byzantine Empire. Also Prussia is much more powerful due to Poland never uniting with Lithuania and becoming the Commonwealth. If you could contribute thoughts on what would happen in this situation too, I'd be grateful.

Those changes would probably cause not just the Habsburgs' dynastic history but the whole history of western Europe to be quite diferent anyway. There might not even have been a long line of Habsburg emperors before this date.

 

[Janprimus]

Well the Saxon Wettins had the best claim, while Bavarian Wittelbach had the second best claim. After them Portugal and Lorraine (in that order). So it will likely turn into a conflict between Saxony and Bavaria, with different states taking different sides.

As for the Habsburg possessions, I expect Bohemia, Austria and Hungary to prefer the Wettins, while Tyrol, Habsburg Swabia, the Austrian Netherlands and the Italian possesions to prefer Wittelbach, while Croatia will prefer Wittelbach they will most likely join the pro-Saxon side.

Depending on other changes ITTL a division could have been reached. For instance does Charles VI manage to keep all the possessions he held after the War of the Spanish Succession or does he still suffer the same territorial losses as IOTL?

I can see Bohemia, Hungary and the Austrian Lands (Austria, Inner Austria, Further Austria, Tyrol etc.) going to the house of Wettin.

However the house of Wittelsbach could gain the Southern Netherlands and Milan and depending on the Pod Naples and Sicily/Sardinia (also depending on the PoD); certainly given the fact the house of Wittelsbach usually was a Bourbon ally.

 

[Mikestone8]

As for the Habsburg possessions, I expect Bohemia, Austria and Hungary to prefer the Wettins, while Tyrol, Habsburg Swabia, the Austrian Netherlands and the Italian possesions to prefer Wittelbach, while Croatia will prefer Wittelbach they will most likely join the pro-Saxon side.

Why Tyrol?

They had been under Bavarian rule in the Spanish Succession War, and would be again under Napoleon. They rebelled both times.

 

[ingemann]

Depending on other changes ITTL a division could have been reached. For instance does Charles VI manage to keep all the possessions he held after the War of the Spanish Succession or does he still suffer the same territorial losses as IOTL?

It depend on when his children's dies (if he's not childless), if his daugthers die in a accident in 1731 as example, I doubt the French will start a war before his death, simply because they're readying themselves.

I can see Bohemia, Hungary and the Austrian Lands (Austria, Inner Austria, Further Austria, Tyrol etc.) going to the house of Wettin.

Yes through as I have said I think Tyrol will go Bavarian

However the house of Wittelsbach could gain the Southern Netherlands and Milan and depending on the Pod Naples and Sicily/Sardinia (also depending on the PoD); certainly given the fact the house of Wittelsbach usually was a Bourbon ally.

Yes through I think France will take the two Sicilies, while the Wittelsbach will gain the imperial crown.

Why Tyrol?

They had been under Bavarian rule in the Spanish Succession War, and would be again under Napoleon. They rebelled both times.

Tyrol was arch-Catholic, while Catholism in the rest of Austria, Bohemia and Hungary was far less popular or deep, the Bavarians are clear Catholics, while the Wettins was Catholic, but at the same time didn't seem to have any deep connection to the faith.
As for their rebellions against the Bavarian, that was while the House of Habsburg was still around, here it's gone, and Tyrol need to find a new ruling house.

 

[Rum Medeniyeti]

I'm sorry, I have no idea. I can't help you man.

There! Fixed that for you.

As a sidenote, in my TL the Habsburgs are around but at the time Charles dies, he is survived by no children. You could as well think of him as childless as I plan for all of his children to die as children.

For instance does Charles VI manage to keep all the possessions he held after the War of the Spanish Succession or does he still suffer the same territorial losses as IOTL?

That's a very good question. There still is a War of Spanish Succession in my TL, as I need Gibraltar separated from Spain at about the same time as OTL. Gibraltar will go to Venice though in my TL, as they are the lucky army that takes it by luck in the war. Ar at the very least, Gibraltar will be within Venice's sphere. The Venetian republic, while stronger than in OTL, is only slighty stronger, so it's still around, but it won't last much longer than in OTL.

Another thing is the fact that in my TL Sicily has been an independent kingdom for some time. And that is about all that I've got figured out at this time.

So yes, I guess that former Habsburg lands will be divided. What I'm curious though, is does this mean we're likely to have a Grossdeutschland solution down the line and will German unification come sooner? Will it include the czech lands?

What I've already made up my mind about is that the Byzantine border will be on the Leitha in late 19th century, but I have no idea what country will border the Empire there.

As for [Tyrol's] rebellions against the Bavarian, that was while the House of Habsburg was still around, here it's gone, and Tyrol need to find a new ruling house.

Makes sense.